Thinning eQC down to one

Reading up on Wally Shaw - he says that with both emergency and supercedure cells the bees have no intention of swarming and should be left alone to choose the queen they want. So why do so many on here advocate thinning cells to one?

Because you can never be sure if you leave more than one, ( or two) however if you only leave one (or two)you CAN be sure!

bees will certainly swarm with emergency cells and at this time of year supersedure cell's can quite easily be swarming intentions, you carnt leave queen cells in excess at this time of season.

We got lucky with our timing today

A colony that is superceding had 4 Qcells on one frame, one empty emerged and 3 still sealed yet to emerge. As we 'discussed' our plan of action the next began to emerge

Not taking any chances (and bearing in mind this colony swarmed on SS cells last year) so removed the frame with three remaing cells to a nuc box - presumably they had been waiting for better weather to allow the virgins out

Wally Shaw may well be right that they don't intend to swarm but in practise some will

Obee1 said:

Reading up on Wally Shaw - he says that with both emergency and supercedure cells the bees have no intention of swarming and should be left alone to choose the queen they want. ?

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They hardly want anything When first emerges, it kills the rest.

I have a habit to shoose the queen. It is called "breeding".

Dadnlad said:

We got lucky with our timing today

A colony that is superceding had 4 Qcells on one frame, one empty emerged and 3 still sealed yet to emerge. As we 'discussed' our plan of action the next began to emerge

Not taking any chances (and bearing in mind this colony swarmed on SS cells last year) so removed the frame with three remaing cells to a nuc box - presumably they had been waiting for better weather to allow the virgins out

Wally Shaw may well be right that they don't intend to swarm but in practise some will

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Supersedure is a fairly rare event with queens of last years rearing, young queens however there is alot of talk of supersedure cell's at this time of year. These are swarming intentions, supersedure normally takes place at the end of the season when an old laying queen is failing.
Unless the queen is old in the spring or failing, the fact that only a few queen cells are present does not mean supersedure , swarming is more likely

snelgrove said:

Supersedure is a fairly rare event with queens of last years rearing, young queens however there is alot of talk of supersedure cell's at this time of year. These are swarming intentions, supersedure normally takes place at the end of the season when an old laying queen is failing.
Unless the queen is old in the spring or failing, the fact that only a few queen cells are present does not mean supersedure , swarming is more likely

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I think the assumptions start when people believe that swarm cells are always on the bottom of the frame and QC's in the middle of the frame are always supersedure cells

jenkinsbrynmair said:

I think the assumptions start when people believe that swarm cells are always on the bottom of the frame and QC's in the middle of the frame are always supersedure cells

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Yes exactly, the time of year and the age of queen plus the queen performance has to be considered for supersedure

Reason I ask is I have a colony I thought was superceding or making emergency cells- but now I'm not sure! The queen is one made from emergency cells and mated at the end of July on Caerphilly mountain- where the weather wasn't the best. The colony is only filling 6-7 seams in a circle as I look through clear crownboard. It has capped brood but no eggs or larvae. I can't find the queen after a fairly good search. The cells are at the top of the frames and one is an inch or two lower. The cells are on 3 frames and number about 5. - or 6. One got ripped apart when I moved the frame.

So you guys would thin down?..

Obee1 said:

Reason I ask is I have a colony I thought was superceding or making emergency cells- but now I'm not sure! The queen is one made from emergency cells and mated at the end of July on Caerphilly mountain- where the weather wasn't the best. The colony is only filling 6-7 seams in a circle as I look through clear crownboard. It has capped brood but no eggs or larvae. I can't find the queen after a fairly good search. The cells are at the top of the frames and one is an inch or two lower. The cells are on 3 frames and number about 5. - or 6. One got ripped apart when I moved the frame.

So you guys would thin down?..

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Any sealed QCs? If so, suspect swarmed. No eggs or larvae also suggests this. Queen cells are queen cells, the labels emergency/swarm/supersedure are made by us, not the bees.

mjt68 said:

. Queen cells are queen cells, the labels emergency/swarm/supersedure are made by us, not the bees.

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They were on planet earth before humans creatures
.

mjt68 said:

Any sealed QCs? If so, suspect swarmed. No eggs or hound larvae also suggests this. Queen cells are queen cells, the labels emergency/swarm/supersedure are made by us, not the bees.

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Good call

.
Yeah. This all were noticed when humans invented movable frame 150 y ago.
Then beeks can see, what was going on inside the hive.

Systems are complex, and they have not developed in few decades.

But nothing is not so fast as imagination.

And the names of phenomenoms... Purpose is to communicate with terms and names.

Your bees may be different but I know from bitter experience that mine will swarm on one QC. 5 or 6 strongly suggests swarming fever. If you don't reduce, you'll lose several swarms.

My feeling is that when very experienced beeks recommend something outside the orthodox, they're writing for other very experienced beeks. Until you are truly one with the bees, KISS.

mjt68 said:

Your bees may be different but I know from bitter experience that mine will swarm on one QC. 5 or 6 strongly suggests swarming fever. If you don't reduce, you'll lose several swarms.

My feeling is that when very experienced beeks recommend something outside the orthodox, they're writing for other very experienced beeks. Until you are truly one with the bees, KISS.

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Wally knows his stuff, but if I recall a conversation I had with him a year or two it was in relation to nucs he was making up by splitting colonies (I may have been mistaken) a different kettle of fish IMHO. I still like to take no chances and choose my own QC's

mjt68 said:

If you don't reduce, you'll lose several swarms.

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I agree, and personally, I leave none, never trust a virgin in a full size colony.

The simple reason for removing emergency cells is to ensure an open cell is left to mature and produce a good queen. Otherwise a runty queen developed early from an older larva could head your colony. Nothing more than that.

oliver90owner said:

The simple reason for removing emergency cells is to ensure an open cell is left to mature and produce a good queen. Otherwise a runty queen developed early from an older larva could head your colony. Nothing more than that.

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So you don't think it necessary to thin down eQC incase the colony swarms on them?

I inspected the colony yesterday - 3rd May and found there were lots of bees - I don't think they have swarmed. one QC looked to have the top opened and resealed. Inside I found two dead bees. So that's a virgin running around the hive then! I opened the other QC and released 4 virgins and some failed QC that were grubs. These virgins got squished - apart from one who I popped in an Apidea with a cupful of bees. Just to see if I can get some drawn comb made in the apidea. I don't want the queen really as bought some in...

So now I'm stuck with a virgin i can't find in a hive that I would like to requeen with a mated queen I have waiting in a nuc.
So if I find the elusive virgin - I'll need to check there aren't more in there before risking my bought in queen..... Ideas anyone?

Well if you can't find her you might have to wait till she starts laying and has fattened up. I'm sure the new queen will be fine in the nuc. Just keep bleeding them of brood.