you think you know something

[Cuckmere couple]

i know beekeeping is famous for the bees confounding what you thought you knew and the literature etc all full of different opinions

Supersedure versus swarm cells

i think i have been working to the D Cushman article read some time back that essentially its 1-3, more commonly 1 that 3 and can be anywhere rather than on face of comb etc.

But, having read a few more articles where people say you can get more than 3 etc I think i may have had a couple this spring which i have treated as swarm cells and vice versa

1 - spit two brood boxes and the one with queen also developed a couple of Q cells
2 - a queenless hive which i successfully introduced a laying queen into (under 12 months old) which i then found 2-3 q cells on face of comb and left as supersedure, BUT, i now read could have just been a new colony not having fully caught up with a new laying queen and i could have removed and had them possibly settle down with her

- is more than 3 supersedure cells highly unlikely or not in people's experiences?
- are most q cells on the face supersedure cells unless clearly part of emergency or swarm cells where you get many many more q cells generally?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Always a very misleading 'fact' that people bandy about (queen cells on the centre/face of the comb) More often than not I've found them right on the edge of the brood (remember that the nest is three dimentional not just a collection of flat brood areas) or on the end frames. Seen multiple supersedure cells more than once, sometimes more than three but not very often.
Cushman not far off the mark really I tend to treat any number more than three as swarming
.............and treat less than three the same It does no harm on finding what may be supersedure cells, to remove the queen and nuc her with a couple of frames of brood/bees and see what transpires. If they're happy with her, you end up with two colonies (one of which may supersede the following season)
If they're not happy with her, you end up with two colonies (both headed by new queens))

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ok...thats reassuring

i didn't nuc the queen in the second example i gave

in this colony one was on face of comb in UBB and the second was on edge of outer frame of brood in lower BB....this was the one i'd introduced the queen into....

i left her in there unfortunately, they weren't capped but cant get back until friday...will nuc her if shes still ok

 

[drex]

Just split the top box of a Demaree into nucs. In Demaree queen cells said to be raised under supercedure response, which makes sense to me. 4 cells, 2 on bottom of frame, 1 at top and 1 right in the middle.

 

[B+.]

I tend to treat any number more than three as swarming
.............and treat less than three the same

If you mean, any cells are a sign of swarming intentions, I couldn't agree with you more.

The following table is taken from JAR 52.1.07 and shows the standard scoring criteria I use

Table 6. Standard scoring criteria for colony propensity to swarm.
Points Symptoms of swarming behaviour
4 The colony does not show any swarming tendency. There are no swarm cells containing eggs, larvae or pupae.
3 Low swarming tendency: some queen cells with brood are present, but the overall colony condition does not indicate
immediate swarming activities. The preparations for swarming may be stopped by destroying the swarm cells and offering
additional comb space.
2 Strong swarming tendency as indicated by repeated queen cell construction and advanced symptoms of preparation for
swarming (reduction of open brood, emaciated queen, limited comb construction).
1 Active swarming: the test colony swarmed or swarming could be prevented only by extensive intervention (interim nucleus
etc.).


Basically, I only select stock that has an average of 4 over the entire season for propagation

 

[Cuckmere couple]

really helpful

i guess i could have just demareed this hive rather than remove queen to nuc

anyway...ill see on fri or sat when back home

if q is still there ill remove her to nuc and cull any new q cells to leave the supersedure

sound like a plan?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

really helpful

i guess i could have just demareed this hive rather than remove queen to nuc

anyway...ill see on fri or sat when back home

if q is still there ill remove her to nuc and cull any new q cells to leave the supersedure

sound like a plan?

Yes - Demarree seldom works when the bees are already making QC's

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks J

i'd heard that

only used it once last year under helpful guidance from colleagues on here

worked really well to create a nuc or two

i'm at the point where i know i dont understand different AS methods sufficient to deploy for the state the colony is in or to meet my objectives

my next step up will be to understand a bit better which method is best for the colony and the plan! i'll feel good about feeling i've achieved that

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

thanks J

i'd heard that

only used it once last year under helpful guidance from colleagues on here

worked really well to create a nuc or two

i'm at the point where i know i dont understand different AS methods sufficient to deploy for the state the colony is in or to meet my objectives

my next step up will be to understand a bit better which method is best for the colony and the plan! i'll feel good about feeling i've achieved that

I'm right with you there!