Winter over/under - supering

[busybee53]

Thanks for all replies. I have had my bees for two winters and put their stores underneath without queen excluder and they have been ok. Easy to do oxalic that way.

Last year I was a bit worried that they may have been separated from their stores which is why I started this thread. The bees managed even though we had an unusual amount of snow.

Could do one hive over and one under this year as an experiment. I think it will depend on how much honey to leave the bees. See new thread.

 

[si106]

Hi there, experts:

I have just read an article in BBKA News by Adam Darling, August issue on undersupering for winter. Sounds good for protection in the winter and for providing lots of stores. I have a national 14x12. I treated with apiguard in August and have been feeding with Ambrosia since beginning of September. Still room for the brood/stores to expand in brood box, but lots of forage being brought in, and this is before michaelmas daisies have started! I would like to give them more room to expand and take in more stores.

I would like to put on a super to be placed underneath brood when the weather gets cold but I don't want to stop the feeding now. So can I continue feeding when there is a super on? Can you place the Miller feeder on top of the super now?, and would the bees come up through the super to feed?

Many thanks for any advice

 

[Finman]

Should it read half of hives ?? Would make sense to me then but well I do only have 2 hives

Could someone enlighten me, cheers

sure. I calculated your math formula and you have -4 hives..
You should get 6 hives to be 2-hive owner.

 

[Finman]

.
The basic tule in wintering is that brood is down and stores up.



it seems to beginner difficult to understand that the hive should be restricted before winter.
Mostly one brood is enough to wintering.

 

[sherwood]

Lets get down to basics, where do you want your queen to be laying in spring, in the brood box. Where will the bees be in winter answer usually in the warmest area and as hot air rises this means the upper most box. This presupposes that the there is stores in the upper box, if not and the cluster has not become isolated from the stores.
It would seem logical therefore that as you want the brood in the upper box and that the cluster will form around the queen and hopefully in the warmest spot that you would put the the super below as the warm air will rise and that the super will help form a cold barrier between the open floor and the cluster.
However what is logical to us is not to them but by encouraging them you can only do your best.

 

[Finman]

Lets get down to basics, where do you want your queen to be laying in spring, in the brood box. .

if you want so, use douple brood. It needs a big colony.

If you have a normal hive, one brood is enough for winter.

In my country no one use brood and half.
We use 3 mediums or douple brood.
Same size brood frames make brood nursing flexiple.

If the colony is big, it takes care itself. But if the colony is weak, it drifts to some corner and die very easy when food is finish.

 

[jackbee]

sure. I calculated your math formula and you have -4 hives..
You should get 6 hives to be 2-hive owner.

ah but as someone has pointed out a few moons ago - it could be ternary, that would make it 32 hives

 

[oliver90owner]

Lets get down to basics, where do you want your queen to be laying in spring, in the brood box

Lets get even more b\sic, but this time on bee activity. Which way do bees tend to move (either swarms, or bees in trouser legs (or bee suit jacket), or during the winter when clustered. Yey! that's right they tend to go upwards! One good reason for leaving winter stores above the brood nest - they will move up towards the stores as time progresses.

The beekeeper puts a large amount of their stores below the nest so it avoids the three weeks it may take to clear any brood from the super, if she lays up there in the spring. Great for the beekeeper, maybe, but not for the bees.

I'm wholeheartily with Finman on this one.

Yes, their stores can be left below the nest, but more for the convenience of the beekeepwer than for the good of the bees.

As found by some, if moved down too early, the bees will immediately start to move it up again. It will only be left there if moved after the bees cluster or if there is nowhere to move it to. All well and good if the weather is mild and they can move it into the vacated brood nest before the depths of winter, but not an ideal way of getting it shifted. In the depths of winter the only warm enough place for feeding will be above the cluster where the temperature is high enough for the bees to not get chilled.

That's my reasoning and I don't intend changing my views.

As an aside, how do top bar hive owners manage this process of forcing the feed below the brood nest?

 

[Drinkstone]

As usual Oliver writes common sense based on knowledge.

 

[Walrus]

I put a super under my 14x12 BBs a few weeks ago knowing that the bees will move the honey into the BB (there was space for stores). As they didn't make lots of honey I thought I'd let them keep it for winter (aren't I nice?). I suppose I could have just left a super on top but my reasoning was that putting it below would (a) lead to bees moving it to BB and (b) not create extra volume above the brood into which heat can be lost.

Walt Wright wrote about a configuration with pollen below the BB and honey above (attached). That's probably old hat now, but I am afflicted with an insatiable need to read anything about bees, so I quite like that sort of thing.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The idea of super under brood at the end of Sept/Early October isn't brood and a half - as the queen never gets to lay in the super and as enrico says, whip it out in spring.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Hi there, experts:

I have just read an article in BBKA News by Adam Darling, August issue on undersupering for winter. Sounds good for protection in the winter and for providing lots of stores. I have a national 14x12. I treated with apiguard in August and have been feeding with Ambrosia since beginning of September. Still room for the brood/stores to expand in brood box, but lots of forage being brought in, and this is before michaelmas daisies have started! I would like to give them more room to expand and take in more stores.

I would like to put on a super to be placed underneath brood when the weather gets cold but I don't want to stop the feeding now. So can I continue feeding when there is a super on? Can you place the Miller feeder on top of the super now?, and would the bees come up through the super to feed?

Many thanks for any advice

I would have thought that a 14 x 12 is big enough to over-winter without a super under. Are you not overfeeding? If the brood box is full and you have a super on, then I see no need to feed any more. The super could then be put under the brood box in a couple of weeks' time with whatever stores are in it at the time.

The article was written to counter the "crack off the crownboard when the bees least expect it and stuff some matchsticks in there" articles of the previous years.