What would you do?

[Poly Hive]

I inspected a small colony yesterday which was a cast some month ago.

Covering some 6 frames, and had a test frame in partly to check on the queen situation, (Q+) and partly to give them a boost.

First frame out had a four day old queen cell on it, next one had the queen with an egg attached to her abdomen, and next one had a capped cell.

What would you do next?

This is not please for established people, it is for beginners.

PH

 

[Motobiman]

Leave her bee, they will sort it.

 

[Brigsy]

I'd post on here and ask for help!

 

[Motobiman]

I'd post on here and ask for help!

And if you do you will get several different answers . . . . . . .

 

[Brigsy]

Haha

 

[sbisme]

I would take down the 4 day old cell and then leave them to it, I suspect they are trying to replace the old queen, and I would check around 4 days later to see if the QC had hatched and see if the old queen was still there

 

[Poly Hive]

Please read the story carefully.

It was a cast. She is a NEW queen.

PH

 

[sbisme]

A cast some months ago and they are making QC's so she has mated correct?

A test frame to give them a boost tells me she has room to lay?

Not sure if a queen having an egg attached to her abdomen is a problem so if it's not knock both QC's down and keep an eye on them

 

[Poly Hive]

Bad phrasing on my part.

Cast had been in a nuc box for a week when I got it one month ago so 5 weeks out the hive.

Egg on her abdomen indicative of laying not symptomatic of an issue.

PH

 

[sbisme]

I'm out of ideas so would ask for help

 

[Zante]

Hmmm...

A couple of queen cells would make me think of supersedure, but if it's a cast the queen is new, and apparently she's laying. The colony thinks there might be something wrong with her, but what?

What is the laying pattern like?
How old is the oldest brood visible?
How much room does she have for laying and how much is taken up by stores?

Is she walking in a funny way? Maybe she came back from the mating flight damaged, or was damaged during the swarming, and the colony wants to replace her with a new queen?

Is she a bad layer? Too unprolific to support a colony?

 

[Zante]

Hmm... Do you know it's a cast, or did you assume it from its size?

 

[Obee1]

If she is laying do we know if it's worker brood yet? She was a virgin four/five weeks ago so is it too early to tell? The two QC are on different frames, is one of them the test frame?
Assume bees think there's something not right with her so let them get on with superseding, unless you are desperately short of colonies, in which case remove QC to apidea and see if bees try superseding again.

 

[Motobiman]

Egg on her abdomen indicative of laying not symptomatic of an issue.

PH

That's a major leap of faith if I may say so.

Using your investigative exercise technique.

Making supersedure Q cells is an indication of an issue with the Q whatever that issue is.

Not sure what to make of an egg on her instead of in a cell but not a good indicator of her ability (if that's the right word in context).

Could be an injury, mating or fertility issue.

I still think I would leave them to get on with it and check in a week if the older Q cell has emerged.

 

[Poly Hive]

Probably it is a leap of faith but........ seen it before and all was well and yes I have a deal of faith in the ability of the bees to sort things out.

Is it a cast, YES it is. How so I know? Size says so and so does the virgin Q. Or rather she was.

Laying pattern? None as yet as she is literally just beginning. The egg I saw on her was possibly the first as there were none in the cells that I could see. Though It was a very fast inspection due to neighbours.

Keep thinking as it is an interesting one.

PH

 

[Motobiman]

Understand.

So the capped cell indicates a Q was laying and the uncapped cell and no eggs indicates she is not. (IME Very easy to miss new eggs in a quckie inspection).

The egg on her indicates she is fecund but not laying correctly.

I still think I would check on the capped cell and look for new eggs after a week and for any more supersedure cells and then depending on what I found either knock the Q cell down or remove the Q and let them replace her.

 

[Tremyfro]

5 weeks since the virgin and cast left the original hive....and you observed what you thought was the first of a queens eggs on her abdomen. Two queen cells...one capped but on a different frame?? There must have been a laying queen in there earlier for them to make a queen cell....which was sealed and could be dead.
Were there remains of an old queen cell anywhere! Perhaps the original virgin returned and laid some eggs on the frame...but subsequently displeased the colony in some way. So they did away with her. They then made queen cells ...one emerged and killed the other one. The new Virgin now goes on mating flight. You then added a test frame during the virgin stage when the pheromone is weaker....so the colony made a new queen cell out of the eggs on the frame. However.....the now mated queen matures and you looked in just as she was starting to lay eggs.
The colony will take down the uncapped queen cell.
I would feed if there is no stores frame in there and leave her to establish the brood nest.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

The egg I saw on her was possibly the first as there were none in the cells that I could see. Though It was a very fast inspection due to neighbours.

Keep thinking as it is an interesting one.

PH

There were, in at least one QC.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hmmff - another massive leap of faith.

Caught a swarm in the Carreg apiary last month, not a massive one, no sign of laying even though there was drawn comb available from the outset soooo......
small swarm, no eggs ipso facto a cast?

went in last week as she is now laying white pen and marking cage poised, found queen - big, black and marked red!

 

[Obee1]

Probably it is a leap of faith but........ seen it before and all was well and yes I have a deal of faith in the ability of the bees to sort things out.

Is it a cast, YES it is. How so I know? Size says so and so does the virgin Q. Or rather she was.

Laying pattern? None as yet as she is literally just beginning. The egg I saw on her was possibly the first as there were none in the cells that I could see. Though It was a very fast inspection due to neighbours.

Keep thinking as it is an interesting one.

PH

So poly, do you have an answer for us - what do you think is the right thing to do?

This is fun. Maybe you could give us some more 'what would you do' brain teasers?