What to do on a hive that hasn't be looked at for years

[Rooster007]

Hi All,

I'd like to ask some basic questions here and I'm looking for advice on where to start on a hive that hasn't been looked at for some years.

To cut a long story short, I have inherited bees from my late father and have taken up the mantle of looking after them.
I guess I've always wanted to do this but when you are younger it seems other things have a priority.

I have a couple oh hives from his apiary in my back garden now and moved them some distance about a month ago without any problems so all looking good and they have settled to their new home.

My problem is that no one has looked into them for a few years (I know this in not ideal) but they are really strong colonies.

Currently, there is one brood box and 1 super on each and they are in national hives.

My question is, where to start when looking into the brood box to check things out?

I've managed to split the super off and look in there and they are working well and capping off honey and swapped off some old frames for fresh new ones and reasonably calm there.

Going into the brood box is a different matter as they are getting very aggressive compared to what I've seen at my local club that I've joined.

I'm going about things the right way and learned about beekeeping in a small group over winter, learning hands on each week from next week at the clubs apiary but its all a little daunting when you do things for real on your own.

I would be grateful for any advice on looking at "neglected" bees and what would be people advice to do first.

Should I clean off things while inspecting or just try to do things as thoroughly and quickly as possible?
Everything seems so stuck up and I don't want to end up doing more damage than is necessary.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[Beefriendly]

My question is, where to start when looking into the brood box to check things out?

Start at one end and lever, if possible, the end frame out. This may be difficult as they may break due to age. They are likely to be "glued together" so will be difficult to remove. Have replacement frames with foundation to replace. any that break, clean up all the excess brace comb/excess wax on those that don't.
Sounds like they have become a bit defensive...not much you can do without other boxes and frames around, apart from endure.
This time of year aim should be roughly to end up with a frame of stores, a frame with pollen, 7 frames with brood (or seven frames that can hold brood), followed by another frame of pollen and end frame of stores.
You can only deal with you find inside and if the bees get feisty then you grin and man up and get thicker gloves....and if it gets scary or beyond what you can happily deal with, close up and go back another day. Preferably with a companion who can help;.

 

[Rooster007]

Thanks for the quick reply. It looks like I might of been going in the right direction.

When I tried to look in tonight, I managed to separate the QE and it was a bit of a mess so I just cleaned it off the to side to get the most of the excess wax off and just levered 1 frame but didn't get a good look at it.

I then replaced everything and let them settle down.

I've got a spare super plus made up plus spare frames and will get some brood frames ready as well for the next expedition in there.

Would it be worth adding another clean brood box and then gradually replacing the old one?

I'll see if I can ask someone to pop round and give me a hand when they can. I'll try a couple of pints bribery to see if that will help.

 

[bingevader]

As long as things aren't in a desperate state of disrepair and on the point of falling a part (which it doesn't sound as if they are), then take it easy and take your time and use plenty of smoke!
Be methodical, clean up as you go and if you have to stop after every couple of frames, then do so.
Just close everything back up and come back another time.
If they're that bad, you may want to consider re-queening at some stage.
But lets face it, if you are saying they are strong colonies, then they've done fine without your intervention in the preceding years, what makes you think you need to dive in and save them now?!

 

[Bakerbee]

I have beginners experience with agressive bees. I have found too much smoke makes them even more angry. Ive found what works best for me is being very gentle and avoiding too mych vibration or accidental knocking when moving frames about. The other thing i find shich keeps them calmer is when i have a frame out inspecting it or cleaning it up i pop the crown board back over the hive. This seems to keep them calmer. Definetly have another beek with you as it makes the whole job easier and a knowlegable guide will be a gem in helping clean this hive up. Good luck and please post how you get on.

 

[Jimmy]

A fine water spray can be more effective than smoke in calming feisty bees, especially if they are pinging off the veil. Having to puff smoke at your own eyes and face doesn't lead to a calm inspection. ..........

 

[Rooster007]

Thanks everyone.

I will take my time and take on board what people have suggested.
I'll keep everyone updated but will leave it for a week now before I go back in and start have a look below for queen cells and if I can spot the signs of swarming.

On a side note, pinging bees off the veil was happening a lot last night. I didn't get flustered or anything but did think they were all getting wound up.

I'll take the water mister next time and give that a try. All good experience for me and a lot to learn.

 

[fatshark]

If you can choose the middle of a warm day to inspect ... they'll all be home "last night"

 

[SDM]

Evening is the wrong time to check an aggressive colony. You want a warm sunny day when as many bees as possible will be out foraging.

 

[Beefriendly]

And if they are really bad the old trick of moving the original hive a few feet and leaving an empty brood box (or one with a few frames) where the original hive was will mean most of the foragers (the aggressive bees) will go there and after about 30 minutes or so you can work in comparative calm.
As others say, warm days are best when the work force is mainly out.

 

[Swarm]

A fine water spray can be more effective than smoke in calming feisty bees, especially if they are pinging off the veil. Having to puff smoke at your own eyes and face doesn't lead to a calm inspection. ..........

Spot on. If they are up at you the sprayer keeps them down. It wouldn't hurt and may prove easier if you do transfer them to another box. If you go that way, move the hive to one side and put the new box on the original site, now you can assess each frame and arrange them as you go and you'll be able to clean up the old box afterwards.

 

[Millet]

I was thinking the other day when i did my first inspection, all my hives where similar with all the frames stuck together with drone comb and brood, which resulted in me snapping one of the lugs of a frame, anyway what i was thinking could it be made easier to separate the frames by gently/slowly using a cheese type of wire to slide between the boxes.. ? .

 

[wessexmario]

I started beekeeping with a baptism of fire by inheriting a couple of hives that had been neglected for years, so a few tips from my experience:

Do it in stages.

To separate boxes I have found a cheese wire is the simplest way to do it, which can be done before you open the hive, just pull the wire through between each box to cut the brace comb between them.
The next step is to just remove the excessive brace comb, clear everything above and below the top and bottom bars.
You'll inevitably damage a lot of sealed brood and larva doing this, this being one thing that really annoys them.
You might do just this in one session, having the correct bee space between boxes will make the next steps much easier, and let you tackle one box at a time as it's a long job.

Now that the boxes are separate, when tidying up each box, get a spare floor a few yards away from the hive, take the box there to deal with it, and close the remainder of the hive up. That'll keep them much calmer while you're working on each single box.
A bucket with a lid or a wet cloth to cover it is essential for all the brace comb that you're going to cut out, especially if it contains brood.
Depending on how they've cross braced it, sometimes a long serrated bread knife can be useful to trim the comb neatly, also for when two frames are just so tangled there's no other way to separate them.

Apart from that, be bold with cutting out the brace comb, the sooner it's returned to straight and parallel, the easier it'll be.
Do it soon too, this is a good time of year to do it, each month from now will have a significant population increase, and the sooner it's done the better placed they'll be to recover well for next winter.

 

[madasafish]

Depending on how they've cross braced it, sometimes a long serrated bread knife can be useful to trim the comb neatly, also for when two frames are just so tangled there's no other way to separate them.

+100 for serrated breadknife.. no better instrument for cutting brace comb (apart from a blowtorch).