What beehive do i have?

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Jafer2

House Bee
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Messages
131
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0
Location
Birmingham
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
3
Hi.

Planning to have my first hive next spring. Took the plunge and ordered a poly beehive but dont know what it is?

On the outside its 17x17 and fits 10 fames.

Im guessing its a langstroth as i bought a queen excluder for a british national which was too big??. But its from germany so i presume its not british sizes?

Here is the link if it help.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEE-HIVE-...3A6d1336b415e0abc320836f58fff43111%7Ciid%3A15

I did see this and now confused :(

http://www.britishnationalbeehives.com/product/bee-hive-sale-june-2016-delivery/

Thanks
 
Who knows ? He's only given you the horizontal dimensions of the box and what you need to know is the DEPTH of the frames ... Looks a bit like a Langstroth to me but the problem is that there are even variations in Langstroths ...

It appears to be a Polish hive - you've either got a bargain or you've bought a pig in a poke ... good luck. Probably not the best way to start beekeeping ... Last thing you want is a hive that doesn't fit anything standard in the UK.
 
Did you try asking the seller?

As pargyle mentioned, the sellers email in the ebay listing ends with .pl so that would suggest they are Polish. I heard a lady in our association bought a Polish hive this year and its fell to bits already. Personally I'd not take the chance and return it and buy a nice Swienty from C. Wynne Jones and you'll know you have something decent.
 
Keeping bees is not just a question of one hive and a few bees, ironically I thought it was when I started 35 years ago but that's another story! Do you have any knowledge, done any courses, had a hands on with another beekeeper etc. Or ....... Have you just bought a hive. Where are your bees coming from? Don't want to sound condescending but......big learning curve coming up!
E
 
hive

That's a polish hive for 100% and its only the pols that seem to have the wielkopolskie hive,ive seen these in Krakow on holiday,good luck.lol
 
Yes a Polish hive. It has frames which are national size but with shorter lugs, so you can use lug extenders to transfer the frames to a national or cut a little off the national frames for the other way around. As you have frames with it, you can use wax of national size. The problem comes with your first colony; a package will go in of course, but a nuc / frames from a national will not and cutting off lugs with the bees still on the frame could be interesting. Possibly best answer is to get a national and have a supply of lug extenders, then use this hive as a bait hive.
 
Why did you buy anything without knowing what it was?


Hi.

Planning to have my first hive next spring. Took the plunge and ordered a poly beehive but dont know what it is?

On the outside its 17x17 and fits 10 fames.

Im guessing its a langstroth as i bought a queen excluder for a british national which was too big??. But its from germany so i presume its not british sizes?

Here is the link if it help.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEE-HIVE-...3A6d1336b415e0abc320836f58fff43111%7Ciid%3A15

I did see this and now confused :(

http://www.britishnationalbeehives.com/product/bee-hive-sale-june-2016-delivery/

Thanks
 
Well, whether or not it was wise to buy a hive "because you saw one on ebay" is a moot point. you have it now, and unless you want to go through the hassle of sending it back, let us assume "That it is a good 'un". If it falls apart, glue and pins will be the order of the day, but let's assume it wont.

Basically if you measure the frames:
"Nationals" should be about 356mm [14 in] (Bottom bar).
"Langstroths" should be about 447mm [17.5 in] (Bottom bar).

I say "Bottom Bar" because that is the "Size of hole" they need to go in, so alternatively you could measure inside the hive between "the shelves" (the bit where the lugs sit on to hold the frames up). Inside the hive mind, not "with the shelves", with the Shelves will give you a "Top bar" measurement.

Nationals have "longer lugs" (~38mm I think).
Langstroths and "Commercials" have shorter lugs (~18mm) (Commercials may be 16mm)

So that measurement (inside the hive) should be:
For a National ~370mm
For a Langstroth ~460mm

One or the other, should make it fairly obvious.

The "Depth" of the boxes determines which exact frame you need.

In my view, it doesn't really matter what you have, but it will make a difference when you come to populate it. Although all my stuff is National, now I know what I know, I would have gone Langstroth.

Why? Because Langstroth is the original and we should ALL have stuck with that, everything should be Langstroth. But we "British", we have the idea that we know best and invented the "National", which is a much smaller frame than the Langstroth. This may have made sense at the time in that our "British" bees may be less prolific than other Bees and so this may have been a better fit 100 years ago. But now everything is so interbred, that the beekeeping community should move to a "Single Standard".

Anyway, you'll have one or the other.

Bees.

When you come to get your bees, you may wish to buy them, or join your local association, where it is 50/50 bet that, if you join now and do the course, by the time spring comes, some nice soul is likely to say "Here, here's a few bees". Beekeeping associations, by there nature, are not terribly commercial, they are very supportive though. (For instance, my local BKA has extractors, wax melters, Varroa vaping tools and all sorts available free, this could save you a good lot of money).

If you buy bees, find a supplier who will supply them on frames that fit your hive (they are out there).

Or you could just let some Bees move in, they will if you ask them :)
 
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Thanks for all your help. I did ask the seller what hive it was and just assumed that its a langstroth hive. my bad!

with the info on bees yes i know alot and have hands on experience and was already looking to get another brood just in case i need to split the hive if they want to swarm so i could do an artificial swarm.

i will do the measurements and post here.

the hive itself is good and made well. Yes the guy is polish but the item is made in Germany and came from Germany. I know I should of just gone with a British national just to save me the hassle but wanted a langstroth and for some reason they are more expensive and less of them. What sold me was the price obviously but the seller said that it would fit with other manufactures measurements.

as for the bees yes i would love for them to come to me naturally ;) as i have cheap rent! otherwise i have several sellers close by who said they can supply me with a langstroth nuk for around £130 - £150.
 
bottom bar is 360mm
lugs are 15mm

brood depth is 260mm

hope this helps?

thanks
 
I think. You have a "Commercial" hive :)

I think this because your bottom bar is not long enough to be a Langstroth and your lugs are not Long enough to be a National. But you are outside my area of direct knowledge now. I seem to remember "Stewart" (Norfolk Honey Company) getting some "Maisemore Commercial Polyhives" (you can see that on youtube), and the bodies were somewhat interchangeable with Nationals, and the "Footprints" of the hives were the same, but the Commercials were a couple of inches deeper (i.e. your 260, as against 216 for a standard National)

So that's my best guess.

Now the "ramblings of an imbecile" are over, there are people much better than me to fill in the details.

Certainly, I thought I'd check on the "Thornes" website, and their Commercial frames are a totally different size.

So I'm confused and unsure.

But I stand by it as my best guess. Just hoping someone who really knows his onions comes on and puts the pair of us right :)
 
Hi.

Planning to have my first hive next spring. Took the plunge and ordered a poly beehive but dont know what it is?

On the outside its 17x17 and fits 10 fames.

Im guessing its a langstroth as i bought a queen excluder for a british national which was too big??. But its from germany so i presume its not british sizes?

Here is the link if it help.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEE-HIVE-...3A6d1336b415e0abc320836f58fff43111%7Ciid%3A15

I did see this and now confused :(

http://www.britishnationalbeehives.com/product/bee-hive-sale-june-2016-delivery/

Thanks

One of these I imagine:

http://apikoz.pl/en/
http://apikoz.pl/en/products/wielkopolski-beehive-for-10-frames
 
Nope. Can't be, because Maisemore Commercials are 17.25 (438mm) top bar too.

So. New "Best Guess", you have a "National" with "Short Lugs" :)

Well, an unusual Depth "National with short lugs"
(Normal national frame depths being 216 (Brood), 304 (Deep) and 140 (Super))

You are definately right to ask your question, and I now wish I had said nothing (although I thought I'd read up on all frame types earlier this year, made a spreadsheet etc.) and waited for someone with more knowledge to answer. But I did, so we'll have to see what others can add.

Meanwhile I'll do some more research...

I don't think it will be hard for you to cut National lugs to make them fit (Although check the hive, how much space is left "Beyond the end of the lug"? If "lots" then National frames may just go in. But the height would be a nuisance. You might get round that by buying "Deep" (14x12) Nationals and shortening the sides. Or you could use Standard "Brood" Nationals (216mm) and accept that the bees will "Add a little" to the bottom. Every video of a hive I have ever seen, and the few hives I have been in Miss Bee and her mates have been quite inventive with extra wax, so it will be a nuisance, but only a bit worse than "normal" :)
 
interesting.

so based on all this i could get a nuc that is:

British Standard National Deep
L 356
H 215

could be messy cutting the frame with bees on it ;)

more likely i would do is get the frames and make them fit but the next hive will be a langstroth so that the frames can fit in when i get the nuc. I will then use the polish one for splitting or if i do catch a swarm then it would be for that.
 
Yes. i think so. I have Nucs (they Happen to be Maisemore, but I am sure the others are just as good), they have "ekes" (I bought 2 ekes, 90mm I think), then your current frames would fit your Nucs.
 
It's non standard ... cut your losses, put it down to 'seemed like a good idea at the time' and either sell it on to another mug, use it as a bait hive or if it will sit on top of a national cut it up and use it as an eke to put some insulation on top of a standard hive.

Langstroths are still more expensive in the UK than nationals or 14 x 12 - I've got Paynes Poly 14 x 12 hives and they work well for me ... national supers fit, you have lots of options for getting bees and you are not going to be cursing every time you are trying to fiddle the frames out of the box with those ridiculously short lugs -assuming of course that you can get the boxes apart without destroying them because of that equally ridiculous rim at the top .... you've bought a pig in a poke I'm afraid.

... and I forgot to mention - blocking up those even more ridiculous ventilators in the crown board ... complete ba....rd of a hive in my simple opinion ... dump it.
 
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... I know I should of just gone with a British national just to save me the hassle but wanted a langstroth and for some reason they are more expensive and less of them. ...


Langstroths are still more expensive in the UK than nationals or 14 x 12 -


In terms of Poly a Swienty Langstroth is only £4 more than a 14x12 or £10 more than a national. http://cwynnejones.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53_56_131&products_id=763
 
It's non standard ... cut your losses, put it down to 'seemed like a good idea at the time' and either sell it on to another mug, use it as a bait hive or if it will sit on top of a national cut it up and use it as an eke to put some insulation on top of a standard hive.

Langstroths are still more expensive in the UK than nationals or 14 x 12 - I've got Paynes Poly 14 x 12 hives and they work well for me ... national supers fit, you have lots of options for getting bees and you are not going to be cursing every time you are trying to fiddle the frames out of the box with those ridiculously short lugs -assuming of course that you can get the boxes apart without destroying them because of that equally ridiculous rim at the top .... you've bought a pig in a poke I'm afraid.

... and I forgot to mention - blocking up those even more ridiculous ventilators in the crown board ... complete ba....rd of a hive in my simple opinion ... dump it.


LANGSTROTH COMPLETE HIVE WITH 1 FULL & 2 MEDIUM BODIES
£124.00
https://www.----------------.co.uk/...oth-complete-hive-with-1-full-2-medium-bodies
 
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