Using standard frames in 14"x12" brood box...

[Bronzeham]

Hello
I am a new bee keeper and have just been lent a five frame nuc with a swarm in it and will be transferring it to a hive when the time is right - and when I have purchased one!
However, I would like to (and have been advised to as well) buy a hive with a deep brood body (14"x12"). Is it possible to put five frames of standard size into a deep brood body and fill the rest of the brood box with 7 of the the correct 14"x12" frames (or 6 and a dummy board)? Will the bees just make natural comb from the bottom bar? or will they clog up the space with brace comb?
In the new year when the colony starts to get going (around April/Mayish I guess), I plan to replace/sacrifice the 5 small frames with the proper 14"x12" ones.
Is any of this doable?

 

[BMH]

That will work no problem, at all.

No need to even sacrifice the small frames if they have drawn it out nicely.

Best to do it late in the year (i.e. now moving forward) as opposed to earlier in the year as they love to draw drone brood on the bottom early in the season.

 

[Bronzeham]

Best to do it late in the year (i.e. now moving forward) as opposed to earlier in the year as they love to draw drone brood on the bottom early in the season.

Thank you so much for your reply, and it's great to know that I can do this, but I'm not sure that I can sacrifice the 5 frames this year as the swarm was small (a cast most likely) and I have no egg yet, and I don't know if the colony will have time to draw out more comb on new foundation and get enough workers out to survive the winter.
I don't mind sacrificing the drone comb next year, which will have the added benefit of getting rid of some varroa I guess.
It's not ideal, but I'm a bit stuck for time

My first post on the nuc is here if you want any more info:-
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44814

 

[Rosti]

As above (agree with lal5000), that will work, but perhaps just change 4 of 5. I run 14x12 but keep x1 std frame so that the girls can form drone brood comb below the std frame. This I periodically sacrifice (when fully created and capped) on the basis of removing varroa which preferentially infests drone brood (as I understand it).

If you are going to replace with full 14x12 then move them (the old 14x8.5 frames) out towards the edge of the box and only replace with a fresh foundation 14x12’s inserted at the centre, once they are brood free and only carry some stores.

 

[Bronzeham]

As above (agree with lal5000), that will work, but perhaps just change 4 of 5. I run 14x12 but keep x1 std frame so that the girls can form drone brood comb below the std frame. This I periodically sacrifice (when fully created and capped) on the basis of removing varroa which preferentially infests drone brood (as I understand it).

If you are going to replace with full 14x12 then move them (the old 14x8.5 frames) out towards the edge of the box and only replace with a fresh foundation 14x12’s inserted at the centre, once they are brood free and only carry some stores.

That's very interesting, thank you.
Are you saying that I should replace 4 of 5 this year? or early next season?
And should I put all 5 std frames to one end and place the 14x12s from one end up to meeting the 5 std frames? or split the 5 std frames (2 at one end, 3 at the other) and put all the 14x12s right in the middle?

 

[beeno]

Hi Bronzeham, Welcome to the world of beekeeping! Have fun. In your situation I would.
1. By myself a Maisemore polynuc with eke (for the future takes 14 x 12) and a feeder - when she is laying.
2. You can then give back the borrowed nuc rather than rushing the bees into an oversized hive.
3. You have a cast which will grow slowly and will probably be better off overwintering in a nuc.
4. You can then add a super with 14 x 12 frames when they are ready and you are ready to purchase your hive for Christmas or come spring.
5. Everyone should have a nuc in their tool box.
Fingers cross that she mates

 

[thedozzer]

Hi Bronzeham, Welcome to the world of beekeeping! Have fun. In your situation I would.
1. By myself a Maisemore polynuc with eke (for the future takes 14 x 12) and a feeder - when she is laying.
2. You can then give back the borrowed nuc rather than rushing the bees into an oversized hive.
3. You have a cast which will grow slowly and will probably be better off overwintering in a nuc.
4. You can then add a super with 14 x 12 frames when they are ready and you are ready to purchase your hive for Christmas or come spring.
5. Everyone should have a nuc in their tool box.
Fingers cross that she mates

Just to add, we started with a 14x12 Masie Poly nuc last year, the bees did really well in it, and the Miller style feeder is easy for a beginner.
Plus if you glue the eke to the bottom with copydex they are lovely and light to have up ladders when getting swarms from trees

 

[Bronzeham]

Just to add, we started with a 14x12 Masie Poly nuc last year, the bees did really well in it, and the Miller style feeder is easy for a beginner.
Plus if you glue the eke to the bottom with copydex they are lovely and light to have up ladders when getting swarms from trees

Thanks for this advice, but I am really trying to keep the costs down.
The nuc I have been lent is handmade from pallets, so I don't think I'll be looking to buy any
The hive though is more precision so I'll have to buy that

 

[thedozzer]

Thanks for this advice, but I am really trying to keep the costs down.
The nuc I have been lent is handmade from pallets, so I don't think I'll be looking to buy any
The hive though is more precision so I'll have to buy that

Nothing wrong with recycling, my extractor motor is an old running machine motor i got for free.
But spend as much as you can on the kit for the bees as you can. as good kit can last years, some of the cheap hives are not very good quality wood.
if you can stretch to a poly hive, do as the people i know that have them, have had them for years with no problems.

 

[mdotb]

Thanks for this advice, but I am really trying to keep the costs down.
The nuc I have been lent is handmade from pallets, so I don't think I'll be looking to buy any
The hive though is more precision so I'll have to buy that

A nuc is a really useful bit of kit, that you will probably want to have your own of (I’ve made all of mine myself, so no harm in that) sooner or later, however putting a strong nuc on standard national frames into a 14x12 brood box with a few frames of 14x12 foundation and dummy boards outside will work - that was how my first colony started.