upside down in the dark yet straight and true

[user 6228]

Some facinating bits of research that may entertain the beginner and the old hand.

In a natural nest without frames or starter strip honey bees make combs that form vertical flat planes (or pretty close) but how? they are in the dark hanging from the roof.
Faced with the problem of building a wall in the dark how would do it?
To build a wall true and vertical you would use a plumb bob on string for the vertical and a piece of string stretched across the length to keep the wall straight. So one could imagine that in the dark you would do the same but just feeling for the string.

It turns out that honey bees use the same technique.

Their string is made out of bees. Festoons of bees hanging from the comb and the walls guide the comb building. Though involved in the building these bees dont actually produce or manipulate any wax . The research into this was done by R Darchen in the late 50's and early 60's.

A summary of this work is in Hepburn HR, Pirk CWW, Duangphakdee O. Honeybee Nests [Internet]. 2014. Available from: http://link.springer.com/10.1007/978-3-642-54328-9

 

[enrico]

And can often be seen in the hive on the face of foundation. Bees all hanging on to each other to guide the builders.
E

 

[Beefriendly]

A summary of this work is in Hepburn HR, Pirk CWW, Duangphakdee O. Honeybee Nests [Internet]. 2014. Available from: http://link.springer.com/10.1007/978-3-642-54328-9

Perhaps you could share/loan your electronic copy?
....at £70+ for the electronic version it's not cheap, the hardbacks go for even more.
There's an interesting paper somewhere detailing how bees decide the direction of the comb. If there are ready (or man) made guides they will follow these for ease of construction. Swarms recall their original hives orientation and attempt to build likewise and this is influenced by the earths magnetic fields. If you alter the magnetic field the bees build comb in the same direction predicted by the new magnetic field. Indicating that honey bees are able to use the earth's magnetic field as a compass..

 

[user 6228]

Perhaps you could share/loan your electronic copy?
....at £70+ for the electronic version it's not cheap, the hardbacks go for even more.
There's an interesting paper somewhere detailing how bees decide the direction of the comb. If there are ready (or man) made guides they will follow these for ease of construction. Swarms recall their original hives orientation and attempt to build likewise and this is influenced by the earths magnetic fields. If you alter the magnetic field the bees build comb in the same direction predicted by the new magnetic field. Indicating that honey bees are able to use the earth's magnetic field as a compass..

I splashed out on a hardback version... afterall bit daft for me doing 5yrs plus on studying honey bee nests without one of the key texts.


I found this bit out when I had to create the comb inside a nest in a CAD drawing (FreeCAD). The comb has to arranged either from a side or from the centre of the tree. After reading this its clear that bees start from the highest point in the nest which if you have a idealised conical top , is at the the axis.
Conical top? its an approximation to how cavities rot out following the growth rings which close up as you go up the tree.

 

[Tom Bick]

When building comb bees string themselves together to raise their temperature.

The idea they use these chains as a straight edge to get nice flat combs somewhat falls apart when the bees often build natural comb with more twists and turns that it's hard to see anything remotely straight.

 

[Millet]

What would bees do if you ran foundationless frames in supers with one super the warm way and the other super the cold way..

 

[madasafish]

What would bees do if you ran foundationless frames in supers with one super the warm way and the other super the cold way..

You would quickly discover the meaning of the words "cross-combing".

I had it in one TBH . a real pia.. and basically unrecoverable if in any scale...

 

[mintmoth]

f.
Faced with the problem of building a wall in the dark how would do it?
To build a wall true and vertical you would use a plumb bob on string for the vertical and a piece of string stretched across the length to keep the wall straight. So one could imagine that in the dark you would do the same but just feeling for the string.

It turns out that honey bees use the same technique.

Their string is made out of bees. Festoons of bees hanging from the comb and the walls guide the comb building.

Rather than "guiding" the comb building, is it not more likely that the weight of those bees pulls the soft wax straight and keeps it vertical?

 

[user 6228]

When building comb bees string themselves together to raise their temperature.

The idea they use these chains as a straight edge to get nice flat combs somewhat falls apart when the bees often build natural comb with more twists and turns that it's hard to see anything remotely straight.

Wide flat hive roofs create too many start points for the behavior. Inside a nice narrow upright oak tree cavity they are uncannily straight

 

[user 6228]

Rather than "guiding" the comb building, is it not more likely that the weight of those bees pulls the soft wax straight and keeps it vertical?

no if anything they would buckle the wax if the force along the string (catenary) of bees was enough. You can tell this if you consider the force acts along the line of the catenary and so the there is compressing component.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Wide flat hive roofs create too many start points for the behavior. Inside a nice narrow upright oak tree cavity they are uncannily straight

Like this?

 

[coffindodger]

Like this?

A m celtica
Beautiful

 

[Millet]

Like this?

Now that is what you call nature at its best.. pure art work.. you should have that as a avatar picture.

 

[user 6228]

Like this?

I'd seen ones like your pics before I saw those inside a tree. THat made those straight ones inside a round cavity seem weird

 

[Popparand]

Like this?

Love the pic. So did the bees build the comb straight onto the underside of a roof? Any views on why the heart shaped design?

 

[TooBee...]

There's an interesting paper somewhere detailing how bees decide the direction of the comb. If there are ready (or man) made guides they will follow these for ease of construction. Swarms recall their original hives orientation and attempt to build likewise and this is influenced by the earths magnetic fields. If you alter the magnetic field the bees build comb in the same direction predicted by the new magnetic field. Indicating that honey bees are able to use the earth's magnetic field as a compass..

Now that's a paper I would really like to read if anyone knows of it, or anything similar to it.

The closest I'm aware of something like that is this about Ley Lines ...
http://dave-cushman.net/bee/leylines.html
... I'm making no judgments about this nor making any comments on it as my ignorance on this subject prevents me from doing so!

 

[Beefriendly]

Now that's a paper I would really like to read if anyone knows of it, or anything similar to it.

No this is real science with measurable data and measurable fields (Earths magnetic), not mumbo jumbo ley lines.
You will find several of the papers listed in this review of the topic in this book Magnetic Orientation in Animals.