Unite or destroy?

[Monsieur Abeille]

In a bit of a quandary and would appreciate any advise

I currently have two queenless, bad tempered colonies. Already apparently killed a solo queen + attendants introduced to a nuc of them.

Plan B (C,D, whatever) is to unite the colonies, paper method, with nucs with 2010 queens, placid.

The person I am getting the nucs from has suggested that I would be better off killing the existing colony (which I am really loathe to do) and starting again.

There obviously the risk of losing two not cheap nucs and queens if I unite.

Time is of the essence due to the location of the hives

Any thought and comments would be most welcome before I decide between petrol can and chequebook

 

[snoop]

How long are they queenless?


Would you try another queen in a cage this time without attendents & give them a good feed ie ( like there is a flow on )


Another 3 weeks they will be dead in any case.

 

[mbc]

Petrol must be the very last resort. Surely uniting over paper would work but I suppose it depends on the bees and how prickly they are and how long theyve been queenless

 

[beebreeder]

How long have the queen less colonies been q/less? don't forget workers only live 6 weeks this time of year and if they are old bees they may not welcome new bees and queen. If they have got to laying worker stage then it is considerably more difficult to unite them with a queen or Nuc. A nuc with placid bees is a good way of starting again, and the bad temper is gone completely especially if they are in your garden

 

[Dishmop]

The person I am getting the nucs from has suggested that I would be better off killing the existing colony (which I am really loathe to do) and starting again.

who no doubt will sell you some nucs?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

who no doubt will sell you some nucs?

To be fair to him, if he sells me the nics to united, he potentially gets another sale if they get killed.

In answer to other questions they have been q- for 8 days.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Would you try another queen in a cage this time without attendents & give them a good feed ie ( like there is a flow on )

AFAIK no mated queens locally available for immeditate pickup, so I was simply going to unite a nuc via newspaper, and there is a pretty good flow on from the OSR

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

How long have the queen less colonies been q/less? don't forget workers only live 6 weeks this time of year and if they are old bees they may not welcome new bees and queen. If they have got to laying worker stage then it is considerably more difficult to unite them with a queen or Nuc. A nuc with placid bees is a good way of starting again, and the bad temper is gone completely especially if they are in your garden

Not in but close to my garden, but more importantly, close to other gardens, a path and stables.

Point taken about crotchety old bees

 

[Mike a]

Already apparently killed a solo queen + attendants introduced to a nuc of them.

I would recommend a slower method of introduction than just paper, use a mesh floor or similar for a few days between the two chambers with separate entrances (similar to a cloake board) but bee proof. This should help calm the queenless colony down before you use paper method. Queen and her colony below (entrance facing backwards) and queenless above with their entrance facing the same direction as it does at the moment. This will allow the warmth and queen pheromones drift upwards.

I would then put the queen in a sealed cage just before you use the paper method and keep the cap over the candy so they can't release her until both colonies have merged and have accepted her. Its a few extra days but increases the chances greatly, just keep an eye on the queen cage and don't remove the cap to the candy until they have calmed down.

If you rush it you could end up with a queenless nuc to worry about as well...

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Mike thanks - I really like the idea of the mesh although a bit nervous about shifting the old one on top - it was in the middle of a Bailey and if currently 14x12 + DB + super - and they dont like being shifted! Also I can see a lot of nervousness going into the new hive to cage the queen with the other to one side

May well try one hive at a time as well, not buy the 2nd nuc until I've seen the first one accepte

 

[Midland Beek]

If you can be absolutely sure of the fact that the colonies are properly/hopelessly queenless I would be inclined to unite each one to a queenright nuc. The only way to establish their status is to use a test frame.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

If you can be absolutely sure of the fact that the colonies are properly/hopelessly queenless I would be inclined to unite each one to a queenright nuc. The only way to establish their status is to use a test frame.

Thanks, yes I'm inclined to agree that trying again is the right way.

I am convinced they are queenless, the noise, the general bad temper - the building of emergency cells.

I've taken Mikes suggestion up on one of the colonies and started uniting with a mesh divider, which I'll change to paper at the end of the week. If she survives that I'll get a nuc for the other one and do something similar. It would be horrible to kill the colony off.

Thank you to everyone who has suggested things (and please dont stop), it emphasises to me the real benefit of this forum to us newcomers.

 

[paulgid]

if you can pick up a queen put in butler cage fill hole with candy then put insulation tape over end.the bee,s will not chew through tape so after four days
remove butler cage and remove insulation tape it will take a day or two to get to queen and by then bee,s should be ok with queen.
good luck paul