Swarm: Was I saved by the weather, clipped Q, or both?

[JonnyPicklechin]

Been travelling so had 2 hives who were about 8 days since last Inspection. This morning revealed 4 very impressive completed QCs and the same number under mid construction. After the customary "Oh !*%$" I took a deep breath and found the green clipped Q, slimmed down for sure. I have begun a Snelgrove process.

With these fat cells, was the rubbish weather (raining in West London for the last few days, dry and very windy today) my main aid here. The fact she is clipped? Does sometimes the swarm issue delay after completed cells just because....

 

[enrico]

Two of my hives this year have had sealed queen cells with unclipped queen's still present
E

 

[Poly Hive]

No swarm is going to take off in the pouring rain just because five minutes ago they sealed the queen cells. It's not at all uncommon to have sealed cells and a queen present if the weather is against them.

Further its more usual for a clipped queen to be lost than return to the hive when a swarm issues, or that's my experience.

PH

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

No swarm is going to take off in the pouring rain just because five minutes ago they sealed the queen cells. It's not at all uncommon to have sealed cells and a queen present if the weather is against them.



PH

I guess what I am asking is what the normal research / knowledge on swarm issue is ? I get the swarm wont issue "in 5 minutes" but what are key factors? Is it "Cup is completed, weather good, lets go!?" Or have folks observed or have knowledge from the books that suggest the trigger reasons?


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[JonnyPicklechin]

Two of my hives this year have had sealed queen cells with unclipped queen's still present
E

So most of the time you observe complete-and-go? But every now and again....

Was the weather good in these cases?

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[enrico]

Most of the time I don't let them get to sealed queen cells ......to my knowledge......so I rarely see them sealed with a queen because a) they were unsealed and I did an AS or b) I missed the cell and they swarmed. It just so happens that this year, for various reasons I have done checks in quick succession and caught two sealed ones with the queen still there. ( Which means I missed them the first time round!) I don't think anything is set in stone. It is often more luck than judgement, well with me anyway!
E

 

[Jambo]

After the customary "Oh !*%$" I took a deep breath and found the green clipped Q, slimmed down for sure.

Green, 2019 queen swarming? Or 2014 or are you using non-standard colours?

 

[Jambo]

Further its more usual for a clipped queen to be lost than return to the hive when a swarm issues, or that's my experience.

I have certainly lost a fair few and would tend to agree; however you'd need to be watching your hives all day to be sure that they haven't fallen in the grass and returned to the hive, surely?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Most of the time I don't let them get to sealed queen cells ......to my knowledge......so I rarely see them sealed with a queen because a) they were unsealed and I did an AS or b) I missed the cell and they swarmed. It just so happens that this year, for various reasons I have done checks in quick succession and caught two sealed ones with the queen still there. ( Which means I missed them the first time round!) I don't think anything is set in stone. It is often more luck than judgement, well with me anyway!
E

Cheers Eric. Wondered what the empirical wisdom was.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Green, 2019 queen swarming? Or 2014 or are you using non-standard colours?

She is new for the season and laying like a freight train so was intrigued I had QCs...But there they were.

 

[Jambo]

She is new for the season and laying like a freight train so was intrigued I had QCs...But there they were.

I'm still new to this lark but that seems odd. Conventional wisdom is that a colony with a current year queen building cells is either ridiculously short on space or it's actually supercedure?

 

[Murox]

I guess what I am asking is what the normal research / knowledge on swarm issue is ? I get the swarm wont issue "in 5 minutes" but what are key factors? Is it "Cup is completed, weather good, lets go!?" Or have folks observed or have knowledge from the books that suggest the trigger reasons?
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Causes of swarming 1. age/condition of the queen. 2. congestion in the BROOD CHAMBER caused by whatever. 3. not enough SUPER space.

Once they have made their preparations and the weather is favourable its pretty much "lets go", often between 10am and 3pm I have observed but I am sure they have their own timetable.

 

[thedozzer]

Causes of swarming 1. age/condition of the queen. 2. congestion in the BROOD CHAMBER caused by whatever. 3. not enough SUPER space.

Once they have made their preparations and the weather is favourable its pretty much "lets go", often between 10am and 3pm I have observed but I am sure they have their own timetable.

Hi Murox, when you say age/condition of queen, i know the general wisdom is that a new queen is not meant to swarm, but what other factors would make a queen more likely to swarm?
I think we have made a bit of beginners errors on the other 2 points, definitely no 3

 

[Murox]

Its the workers who decide when to swarm. Its the workers who feed the queen or slim her down ready for swarming. Yes the general wisdom is a young queen should not swarm but it can happen and I think its still for one of the above reasons. Queen not up to par as the workers see it = what we call supercedure. Nowhere to store nectar so it gets stuffed in brood box spaces = congestion. Queen needs drawn comb to lay in. Storage of nectar needs drawn comb. Bees only build comb for brood or nectar, but need a flow(could be artificial) to build it.

 

[Murox]

There is also pheromones which I do not know much about. A good queen should have enough queen pheromone to spread over 50,000 or so bees every day of her life. The pheromone helps suppress the swarming urge. BUT its potency decreases each day of her life, which increases the possibility of swarming.

 

[beeno]

She is new for the season and laying like a freight train so was intrigued I had QCs...But there they were.

I think you have answered your own question there "laying like a freight train" i.e. not enough room in the brood area. Maybe also swarmy stock plus a hive full of honey and many young bees with nothing to do. Perfect conditions for swarming when they started building the QCs anyhow. The actual swarm preparations take 10 minutes before the off and is instigated by the scout bees. The force was with you in catching them in time!

 

[Poly Hive]

The biggest reason for swarming is genetics and we forget that at our peril.

PH

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

I'm still new to this lark but that seems odd. Conventional wisdom is that a colony with a current year queen building cells is either ridiculously short on space or it's actually supercedure?

Whats fun about this hobby is how odd it is.

The number of QCs was small so very well could be supersedure but I have taken the low road and performed AS.