Swapping hives

[Karol]

I need some help please. How easy is it to swap honeybees from an old hive into a new one and how does one go about it if it is possible?

 

[drstitson]

strange question.

as easy as a normal inspection.

set up new hive (floor, brood box) next to or near old one.

transfer one frame at a time, ensuring queen goes across on one.

shake remaining bees out of old brood box into or in front of hive.

reposition new hive.

job done.

OR

you can of course move the old hive aside, set up new floor and box then transfer - has the advantage that flyers return to new hive during the process.

 

[Finman]

.
Swap or move or what?

A new hive onto old site
Excluder and old hive's frames over excluder.
Queen under the excluder
After a month bees have been emerged from old combs and hopely they are full of honey.

You may do what ever occasional box where you put old frames and it fits over the new hive.

The brood is allways the most important part of the hive.

 

[Karol]

It is a strange question. Let's just say that the existing hive has become compromised and is dangerous for the bees to remain in so bees need to be rehoused pronto.

Is there a preferred time of day to do this?

 

[abm]

Unwanted intruders ?

Knowing you Karol, have you been experimenting

Can you not simply reduce the entrance ?

 

[oliver90owner]

The only difficulty arises if the hive types are not the same and requiring different format frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is there a preferred time of day to do this?

My bees usually get a new brood box in the Spring and I do as Drstitson.
Best time is when the bees are flying so any you "spill" will get back into their new box and not perish overnight in wet grass.....etc.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Karol - not one bit a strange question and makes perfect sence if you never did it before. Your first reply as to how to do it is bang on. Make sure to put entrance in exact same place. Since you are on the net make sure to utube your question and you will a vid as to how it is done.

 

[Dishmop]

I thought that "Strange question" was refering "Swap or move what?"

 

[drstitson]

as above - best time of day is when most bees flying so there's less to play with and plenty of time for the stragglers to get back in the hive before evening.

"makes perfect sence if you never did it before"

even newbie one hive owners will likely have started with a nuc which required transfer into a full hive. same process!

 

[Karol]

There is an added complication. The transferred honeybees can't go back to the original hive which has to stay in place at least for 24 to 48hrs so the assumption is that the honeybees will have to be transferred into the new hive which will need to be sealed until the old hive can be removed.

I don't think this can be done easily during the day because returning honeybees will presumably want to head back to the original hive which needs to be kept out of bounds and open.

Thanks Erichalfbee - very useful information about spilled honeybees and potential losses overnight. Presumably the best thing to do is park the new hive right next to the old hive so there's no gap between them when transferring the bees so as to avoid spills.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can you not just move the old hive aside 18 inches (the width of a National) and put the new hive in its place? The flyers on their return will enter the new hive. What is the need for leaving the old hive open?Why can't you block the entrance to the old hive as soon as you start your transfer
Beevac the stragglers inside?

I wouldn't be trying to transfer a colony after it's stopped foraging for the day.

PS...re spills, not just bees that you drop, I was meaning more the ones that will take to the air as soon as you lift the crown board and each frame

 

[Karol]

Because the old hive is converted into a kill box so needs to remain open.

If you read the last section on the beekeeping pages then every thing will become a little clearer. The important thing here is that the old hive will probably be coated in distress pheromone and there is a potential to exploit this to enhance wasp capture. Simply moving a hive coated with distress pheromone will not work not unless it is washed with a solution of double strength soda crystals.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah...that hadn't been posted on your site when I looked earlier. It is indeed clearer.

PS Karol, have you seen this from Vita http://www.vita-europe.com/products/apishield-hornet-trap/#WhatisApiShield
It looks like a home made version could be attempted.....it's expensive.

 

[itma]

There is an added complication. The transferred honeybees can't go back to the original hive which has to stay in place at least for 24 to 48hrs so the assumption is that the honeybees will have to be transferred into the new hive which will need to be sealed until the old hive can be removed.

I don't think this can be done easily during the day because returning honeybees will presumably want to head back to the original hive which needs to be kept out of bounds and open.
…

I may be missing some of the subtlety of the situation, however …

Transfer the frames to the new hive in the afternoon and leave on the same spot until evening (or it starts raining hard). In the evening (or rain), after the foragers have returned to the hive, close up and remove (3 miles) and replace with your kill box for wasp action the following day.
Unless the bees are removed at least 3 (round number no-brain rule of thumb) miles away, some (variable number) of the bees will probably return to their old home position.
Bees shouldn't be left closed into their hive for any significant length of time in warm weather (you'd get away with an hour or so - not 48 hours).

 

[Itchy]

I think I've missed something here

 

[Karol]

I have reservations about such a device (Apishield). Personally I'm not sure about the wisdom of encouraging wasps to the vicinity of any hive and trapping them if indeed they are efficiently trapped. I haven't seen video evidence of the use of the trap but knowing wasp behaviour I suspect that the trap is more porous than it's made out to be. I don't doubt that it catches and kills lots of wasps but I worry that it probably allows significant numbers to escape as well. It has to be understood that wasps fly towards the light. The inside of the trap when assembled will be dark save the entrance flutes and I suspect that a significant number of wasps will be able to see their way out as illuminated by the light coming in through the flutes. Moreover I would worry that the presence of hornets and wasps together would result in significant amounts of alarm/distress pheromone being sprayed within the confines of the hive that will not only act as a magnet to draw more wasps and hornets but may also agitate the honeybees within the hive making them more aggressive and difficult to handle. Apart from that the trap doesn't appear to be very versatile. To manage wasps effectively requires both static and dynamic trapping. Static trapping is designed to intercept wasps to prevent them getting to the hive whilst dynamic trapping is used to resolve problems where they sporadically occur.

 

[Karol]

The thing that's missing is that the situation necessitating this course of action is the decimation of a hive by hunting wasps. This is a rare occurrence and very different to the usual situation of a hive being attacked by sweet feeding wasps. In the event that Velutina lands in the UK then the need for a strategy to protect hives from hunting hornets will become essential and the kill box offers such a strategy.

 

[Karol]

I may be missing some of the subtlety of the situation, however …

Transfer the frames to the new hive in the afternoon and leave on the same spot until evening (or it starts raining hard). In the evening (or rain), after the foragers have returned to the hive, close up and remove (3 miles) and replace with your kill box for wasp action the following day.
Unless the bees are removed at least 3 (round number no-brain rule of thumb) miles away, some (variable number) of the bees will probably return to their old home position.
Bees shouldn't be left closed into their hive for any significant length of time in warm weather (you'd get away with an hour or so - not 48 hours).

Thanks Itma. The subtlety comes from the risk that during the afternoon after the bees have been transferred to the new hive, that the hunting wasps will switch their attention to the new hive and once again plaster it with distress pheromone. Moving the new hive even three miles without washing off the distress pheromone won't help because it will merely serve to attract wasps in the vicinity of the relocated hive.

Both strategies have been offered in respect of the kill box, i.e. making up a kill box from a fresh/clean hive and relocating/cleaning the old hive (as you have pretty much suggested) vs transferring the honeybees into a new hive (so avoiding the need to wash the old hive) and constructing the kill box out of the old hive thereby exploiting the distress pheromone on the old hive to continue to attract and thereby kill a greater proportion of the offending wasps. Simply moving or sealing hives without eradicating the problem hunting wasps will merely serve to redirect the attention of the wasps elsewhere probably to another hive.

 

[itma]

... Moving the new hive even three miles without washing off the distress pheromone won't help because it will merely serve to attract wasps in the vicinity of the relocated hive.
…

Sounds like you are heading towards using (albeit temporarily) a third hive, to make a second transfer into, early the following morning, at the 'distant' apiary.