Steam generator with poly

[rickyd20]

I was going to make a steam wax extractor for cleaning brood frames and sterilizing boxes. This would be just putting frames inside the poly box, with a drain box underneath. Seems alot less hassle than using bleach, as I have to weigh down the boxes inside the water.

I just wanted to check whether it was ok to use steam inside poly boxes. I saw the melting point for poly is around 250 degrees which sounds pretty safe, but i just wanted to check if anyone else does this with poly?

 

[oliver90owner]

100 degrees Celsius is not fatal to the pathogens you really need to be excluding.

 

[wessexmario]

Having just made a steam cleaner myself, a few tips...

- make it fairly steam tight except for the drain, keeping the steam in saves heat and also keeps the hot water for the next stage.
- funnel the melt products through 3 or 4 layers of kitchen towel, I used an offcut of mesh to support the paper.
- have a receiving container higher than wide for the volume of water you're using, this helps with the wax separation.

Using the filter and keeping the steam contained to condense into the drain receiving vessel means you can purify the wax at the same time, the filter takes out all the solid matter, the waste hot water going into the receiving container with the wax means the wax filters better and can separate slowly from the water soluble remainder at a warmer temperature and the result is a very clean wax.
My filter was inside the steam chamber, it may clog up quicker if it's outside and cooler (but haven't done a comparative test).
Plastic milk containers with the top cut off work wall as a receiving container, being flexible and disposable makes it easy to get the wax out and tidy up after.

I previously tried a number of different methods to clean wax, this was by far the easiest, cleanest and most efficient method, and easily added to your main aim of sterilising the kit.


ps. To be clear in case the wrong assumption is made, I didn't use a poly hive box myself, but a large polythene water container.

 

[wessexmario]

100 degrees Celsius is not fatal to the pathogens you really need to be excluding.

agree, but steam cleaned kit is a good starting point before applying other effective methods.

 

[user 6228]

100 degrees Celsius is not fatal to the pathogens you really need to be excluding.

but it will be fatal to the poly foam,,, 75C max...


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/insulation-temperatures-d_922.html

 

[itma]

I've recently been using a Paynes poly as a steam wax extractor.

Not fatal to the poly it would seem.

 

[Thymallus]

Seems alot less hassle than using bleach, as I have to weigh down the boxes inside the water.

Why do you need submerge them? Just spray the surfaces and scrub. Takes minutes, then wash with hosepipe.

 

[wessexmario]

I just wanted to check whether it was ok to use steam inside poly boxes. I saw the melting point for poly is around 250 degrees which sounds pretty safe, but i just wanted to check if anyone else does this with poly?

getting back to the OP, I would check with your specific box's retailer / manufacturer.

- they'd know about their product for sure, others might have similar products that aren't in fact the same. (there are a lot of different poly-something-or-other plastics out there, even the same plastic can be formed and moulded in different ways)
- there may be considerations not just the melting point, eg: high temperatures could cause distortion.
- if the manufacaturer/retailer states a safe maximum temp and it goes wrong, you might then be able to make a claim. No chance if they haven't said it's safe.

 

[user 6228]

getting back to the OP, I would check with your specific box's retailer / manufacturer.

- they'd know about their product for sure, others might have similar products that aren't in fact the same. (there are a lot of different poly-something-or-other plastics out there, even the same plastic can be formed and moulded in different ways)
- there may be considerations not just the melting point, eg: high temperatures could cause distortion.
- if the manufacaturer/retailer states a safe maximum temp and it goes wrong, you might then be able to make a claim. No chance if they haven't said it's safe.

exactly..

while you may get a way with it if you dont let it reach equiibrium e.g. stopping and starting and putting cold things or things that soak up energy in it e.g. to remove wax. But to sterilize you need to let it soak and reach the highest temperrature for a while and then ....

 

[oliver90owner]

C'mon, read the OP! Bleach has nothing to do with melting wax.

His question was whether steam was a suitable sterilant, not to melt wax. Wax will melt easily - no doubt about that - but steam at 100 degrees Celsius is NOT a substitute for other sterilising agents. End of. No argument.

 

[B+.]

steam wax extractor for cleaning brood frames and sterilizing boxes.

The alkaline bleach (sodium hypochrite) breaks down cell walls and kills any nasties in the hive. Steam doesn't do this.

 

[theeggman]

For the OP and any new beeks out there.

IF you have a farm supplier near by, buy 'sodium hypochorlite', " Red Label" hypo is usually available. but it's 2X domestic bleach strength and A LOT cheaper. All, most, milking parlours are washed through with twice a day with it.

If you can avoid it don't but bleach in a supermarket, you are buying extra water.

 

[B+.]

If you can avoid it don't but bleach in a supermarket, you are buying extra water.

....and extra strong just means they have added salt

 

[oliver90owner]

Nothing to do with the strength. The salt is added as a thickener. Just as it is in many handwash items, etc, etc.

 

[rickyd20]

Thanks all for the advice. Some really helpful stuff from everyone. My OP was including whether steam would kill pathogens, and also whether the poly would stand up to the temperature of the steam.

I will contact Paynes, since that is the box I have, and see whether they have done any temperature stress tests on the boxes. As for sterilization, I'll stick with bleach, though I'll try spraying instead as submerging 14x12 boxes is a pain.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[oliver90owner]

One side at a time is relatively easy, but time consuming. With only 4 hives .... you will likely not be counting time....

 

[Moggs]

As for sterilization, I'll stick with bleach, though I'll try spraying instead as submerging 14x12 boxes...

Careful with the strength of solution then. Recommended contact time at APHA (defra) published dilution of 6:1 is 20 minutes.


I've had that déjà vu before...

 

[B+.]

Nothing to do with the strength. The salt is added as a thickener. Just as it is in many handwash items, etc, etc.

Yes. I know. We need a sarcasm icon

 

[itma]

I doubt that any hive manufacturer is going to give you the OK for non-standard use.

To expand my previous comment, I ran a wallpaper stripper into a Paynes 14x12 brood and single super for well over an hour last week - without any sign of a problem.

I discovered that steam is a quick way to extract nice wax from old frames, but much slower to deal with a pillowcaseful of assorted wax, old comb, etc. The solar extractor has a place too.