Split queen failed

[noumenon]

I made a split 28 days ago after finding swarm cells. The virgin queen hatched, but is now nowhere to be seen. There are no signs of eggs or brood. How long do I have to source and introduce a queen, or is it already too late?

My other hive only has 5 frames being used for brood at the moment, so I can't really spare any without weakening it significantly.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can put in a test frame for three days then take it out and return it
How was the colony? If the bees were calm there is probably a queen in there

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s only three weeks since your queen emerged. I would give her another 2 weeks. You can get mated queens into September

 

[noumenon]

The bees seemed the same in temperament to the queenright hive. They have good stores and look fine.

While queens are available for another couple of months, does the colony not run out of nurse bees with no new brood emerging? Is there a rule of thumb for when its too late to add a queen?

Would it be a good option to take an empty frame from the new hive and put it into the queenright one to create the test frame? The queen there is a great layer, but only half the frames are pulled out.

Just to check my understanding is correct too - with a test frame if they are queenless they'll create queen cells around existing eggs, if they are queenright, they'll just feed and cap them? If they do create queen cells, what's the best course of action then?

Many thanks.

 

[Ian123]

Some queens do take longer to mate however I find if given reasonable weather for 2 weeks after emerging most are mated. Anything after this and your chances drop drastically!
As above put a test frame in for a couple of days.

 

[drex]

If they don't create queen cells, they more than likely have a queen ( of some sort) in there - not 100 % definite.
If they make queen cells, choose the best open and knock back the rest - mark the frame -still time to raise a queen if strong enough. Or destroy the lot and introduce a bought in queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I made a split 28 days ago after finding swarm cells. The virgin queen hatched, but is now nowhere to be seen. There are no signs of eggs or brood.

I wouldn't have expected to find eggs and certainly no brood after, at best only three weeks from the queen emerging.
I think you really need to learn to be patient. The worst thing you can do at the moment is keep fiddling around with the hive when there's a virgin in there - or even worse actually returning from a mating flight whilst you're pulling the hive apart.

 

[Swarm]

I made a split 28 days ago after finding swarm cells. The virgin queen hatched, but is now nowhere to be seen. There are no signs of eggs or brood. How long do I have to source and introduce a queen, or is it already too late?

My other hive only has 5 frames being used for brood at the moment, so I can't really spare any without weakening it significantly.

Be patient for a couple more weeks, they have stores but incoming nectar (even light syrup feed) will stimulate them and get her laying. Do they have a nice frame of pollen? That would also help as foraging weather has not been good.

 

[noumenon]

I added a test frame at the weekend and I'm delighted to say when I had a quick look at that one frame, it's just been capped. The frame beside had new larvae. So I have a mated queen. Hooray!

 

[ericbeaumont]

queen there is a great layer, but only half the frames are pulled out.

This would worry me: has the whole box now been drawn?

And what of the Hooray! colony? A full box of drawn comb and stores?

Unless the BB is fully drawn pretty soon and loaded with pollen, honey, brood and bees, prepare late in September to put the colonies into a poly nuc each for winter.

PS: I hope neither colony has supers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I added a test frame at the weekend and I'm delighted to say when I had a quick look at that one frame, it's just been capped. The frame beside had new larvae. So I have a mated queen. Hooray!

Don't clap your hands until she starts laying. Queenless bees don't always draw emergency QCs at the first attempt

 

[ericbeaumont]

frame beside had new larvae

Eggs?

 

[Swarm]

Larvae on an adjacent frame would indicate a laying queen, perhaps there were eggs as well.

 

[noumenon]

This would worry me: has the whole box now been drawn?

And what of the Hooray! colony? A full box of drawn comb and stores?

Unless the BB is fully drawn pretty soon and loaded with pollen, honey, brood and bees, prepare late in September to put the colonies into a poly nuc each for winter.

PS: I hope neither colony has supers.

Going to check it today.

I've left the super on the original colony so they had stores through the June gap (which happens in July here in NI). I never thought of them focusing on filling the super rather than expanding the brood box. That's why I'm in the beginner section! I'm assuming if not fully drawn out, I should remove the super for now?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm assuming if not fully drawn out, I should remove the super for now?

yes

 

[ericbeaumont]

remove the super for now

Yes, not just for now, but store it until next spring.

Aim to get both colonies to draw and fill a BB each asap. If combs are yet to be drawn, and depending on your flow, you may need to feed, but only a regular trickle until the ivy starts: one or to litres at a time, early evening to avoid bee excitement, and don't spill any because wasps will locate it quickly.

Are your crownboards open, or sealed and insulated?