Saw the queen 10 days ago...

[Angularity]

...looking good. then today there was a capped queen cup, with a larva inside. Any idea what's going on?

It's a new swarm, received on 8th May.

They may have been feeling a little constrained, as we had to put a super on, so maybe the replacement's a consequence of that.

I couldn't see the queen this time, but she is very shy ad I've only seen her once.

There were lots of worker larvae in the brood, but my eyesight isn't good enough to see eggs at the bottom of cells.

 

[Anduril]

...looking good. then today there was a capped queen cup, with a larva inside. Any idea what's going on?

It's a new swarm, received on 8th May.

They may have been feeling a little constrained, as we had to put a super on, so maybe the replacement's a consequence of that.

I couldn't see the queen this time, but she is very shy ad I've only seen her once.

There were lots of worker larvae in the brood, but my eyesight isn't good enough to see eggs at the bottom of cells.

There may be more than one queen cell. It may be supersedure if the bees don't like the queen for some reason or you may have killed the queen during your manipulations.
Are there less bees in there now if you think they were overcrowded?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How much room was there, how many frames of brood, what do the QC's look like - could be anything without a bit more info. it's hard to tell

 

[Angularity]

In a National, there were 9 frames of brood in the brood box, the QC's looked like roundish cups rather than elongated cells.

The total number of bees doesn't seem to have changed, there were a load in the super today, with some drawn comb.

 

[Poly Hive]

If you are having trouble seeing eggs ASDA is your friend for glasses. I told them what I required to be able to do (grafting) and they produced the goods at a fifth the price of other well known opticians.

PH

 

[Swarm]

OK, I'll ask the obvious. You say a capped queen cup with larva inside. If you could see the larva, then it's not capped. Your description of roundish cups rather than elongated cells sounds more like drone brood to me. A capped drone cell is domed, unlike the worker cells. Play cups will always appear and they are not considered queen cells until charged with royal jelly. You will need to tip the frame to see into these as they hang downwards.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sounds like drone brood to me

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you could see the larva, then it's not capped. Your description of roundish cups rather than elongated cells sounds more like drone brood to me.

 

[beeno]

Hi Angularity,
I take it that you tore down the capped queen cell that's how you knew there was a larva inside? It is common for a swarm to requeen itself. One reason being that the queen may have swarmed before thus she can be quite old.
In case she has swarmed, please ensure that you can tell the difference between drone brood and emergency cells - google it. If she has swarmed and you tear down all the queen cells you will make the colony queenless. Leave them with one queen cell. If she is still there you will need to do some kind of swarm control.
If you can determine the state of play someone will guide you through in more detail.

 

[Angularity]

Hi Angularity,
I take it that you tore down the capped queen cell that's how you knew there was a larva inside? It is common for a swarm to requeen itself. One reason being that the queen may have swarmed before thus she can be quite old.
In case she has swarmed, please ensure that you can tell the difference between drone brood and emergency cells - google it. If she has swarmed and you tear down all the queen cells you will make the colony queenless. Leave them with one queen cell. If she is still there you will need to do some kind of swarm control.
If you can determine the state of play someone will guide you through in more detail.

Thanks beeno, that seems to be the situation. I'll have another look next week and check for the old queen, and if the cups ext to the one I opened are not capped.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks beeno, that seems to be the situation. I'll have another look next week and check for the old queen, and if the cups ext to the one I opened are not capped.

If it was a QC you tore down, you need to get back in there pronto not in a week. If they want to swarm they will make a QC out of an older larva and be away in days.
You need to sort out what you saw ASAP and get some real advice.

 

[Nige.Coll]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=q...0ahUKEwi9l8nd267NAhWIIMAKHYQRD90QsAQIGw&dpr=1

queen cell pictures.

 

[beeno]

Hi Angularity,
Since you have only got one colony it is important to get the next bit right.
1. Look for Queen or eggs (first day old eggs upright, second day old eggs beginning to keel over and third day old eggs laying down at the bottom of the cell).
2. If you find neither then you must save one queen cell a primary one is preferable (the large ones in Nige's photos) or an emergency queen cells which will be stubbier google it. If you don't your colony will bee hopelessly queenless i.e. they cannot make a queen themselves. Then you need to phone a friend for a frame of eggs, surplus virgin or queen or buy a laying queen for queen introduction which is another skill to learn.
3. Timing is everything in beekeeping. If you tore down the only qc they had the bees will panic. They will build a qc from up to 2 day old larvae. Thus 3 days an egg + 2 days a larvae = 5 days so, they can be off in 4 days time (5 + 4 = 9 which is swarm day) from when you tore down the QC.
Good luck it is a steep learning curve. Just hang on in there!

 

[Angularity]

OK thanks everyone.

I just had another look in. I couldn't see the queen, but this is not unusual, she's always been a hider. There is now a clear primary queen cell with a larva, not capped. It looks like the supersedure cell in this:

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

i.e. a 'proper' queen cell on the face of the comb, not underneath.There are other cups but I couldn't see larvae in them.

I couldn't see any eggs in cells, even with my magnifying glass, so my guess is that I didn't kill her when I found her, but she was already old when she swarmed in May and they've decided it's time for a change.

Based on what I've been told elsewhere I intend to leave them alone to get on with it; would you agree?

 

[beeno]

Hi,
No, you have to go in 6 days from now to check that you don't have a plethora of primary and emergency queencells as this would lead to swarming and reduce to one. If she is old and pegs it they may produce many emergency QC.
Also, you should mark the top bar of the QC you are saving and work out when she should emerge. Then before 1100 hrs just quickly check that she has emerged so that it is not a dud.
I am a bit concerned that you cannot see any eggs, but now have a QC under construction. It would be good to have someone with you to check this out.
Good luck.

 

[Angularity]

Back in again yesterday. Lots of holes in the brood. No eggs visible at all, which make me think there is no queen any more. Three capped QC, but I'm nervous to kill two off.

Can't find any local help at the moment, so doing this myself/with your help ATM.

Is there any benefit to splitting the colony, by which I mean, putting a frame with a QC and the attendant nursery bees into a nuc box, to act as a kind of back-up? If so, how far should it be from the 'home' hive?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I wouldn't do anything more now - apart from stop fiddling and heeding duff advice and let them get on with it. Go back in infour or so weeks - no rush as they're in a full hive so plenty of room if she mates early..

 

[beeno]

Hi again,
I shall treat you like the grown up beekeeper that you are. Yes, it is sensible to make up a nuc for back up. It is after the queen has emerged that you are not supposed to go into the hive. If the bees have made primary queen cells then you have had a queen in there all along, which has now swarm by the sound of it. And if they are nice big emergency cells then you should have a good queen or two from a hive that initially had 9 frames with brood on which would make it strong enough to swarm on anything.

 

[Angularity]

Well, that all went well. Or not...

On the 9th July I saw a cloud of bees outside the nuc box, and thought that they were excited because the new virgin queen was out on her mating flight. Didn't go in or anything silly.

On the 10th were was a sound like a jet taking off in the neighbours garden. Turned out it was a swarm from my hive forming and settling on the neighbours washing line post. I cleared them up and gave them away, not sure what was going on but hoping that one queen had gone away leaving another QC to hatch; I'm not sure that hopelessly naive covers it, but you get the drift.

I warned the neighbour to clean the post, as it would have the scent of swarming bees on it. Based on the events of the next couple of days, I suspect he used a pressure washer.

I then caught a plane to Ireland for a business meeting.

Did I mention that another neighbour was having his roof replaced? I had noticed lots of bees/wasps flying round, but thought nothing of it. Roofers are so careful when it comes to disturbing bees.

The following day a large swarm arrived in neighbour 1's garden, and attached itself to a tree. Friendly local beek comes round and knocks them into a skep, says they'll be back tomorrow to check that everyone's safely inside. Comes back tomorrow, large swarm still on the tree, looks inside skep and sees masses of bees. How nice. Moves skep, cuts off branch and drops swarm No. 4 into a box, makes hasty retreat, falls off stepladder, neighbour rushes to help, gets stung twice on his nose.

I now have two queen less colonies, and a queen on mail order. Only hope to get anything through the winter is to re-queen then combine the colonies.

Oh, and a neighbour with a sore nose whose garden is plastered in swarm scent.

Piece of cake, this beekeeping lark.

 

[Teemore]

Are you certain your colonies are queenless? Have a good look at them (carefully) and watch out for emerged queen cells. If there are queens in your two colonies, you could add your newly purchased queen only to have the colony kill her as they are already queenright.
The swarms in the neighbouring gardens do not necessarily have to have come from your two colonies. Are there other beekeepers in the area? Feral colonies? I would suggest that you try test frames in your colonies to see if they try to draw out emergency queen cells. The help of an experienced local beekeeper will be invaluable and will help you learn a wee bit more about practical beekeeping.