Replacing queen excluder in the Spring

[Deaner666]

Hello all, I'm pretty new here and new to beekeeping too! I'm just entering my second year with my first colony.

As advised by the "In the Apiary" section of the BBKA magazine back at the beginning of winter, I removed the queen excluder from my colonies hive. The reason was to prevent the queen getting separated from the bee mass if they moved up into the super we left on that had winter stores in it.

This all made sense, and yesterday, as the weather was fine and warm, we decided to put the QX back on (again as advised by a recent "In the Apiary" article).

On opening the hive, we were pleased to see that already there are a large number of bees in the hive - they seem to be doing really well. However, they were merrily spilling up into the super so we had no idea if the queen was in the super or the brood box. We didn't want to do a full inspection to find her as I don't think the weather is warm enough yet (although it was about 12 or 13 degrees in the apiary yesterday!) We didn't want to strand the queen in the super, so we've left the QX off for now.

What do you guys do about this issue? How can you get the QX back on safe in the knowledge that the queen is in the brood box? Does everyone here remove the QX for winter?

Thanks in advance for your advice,

Dave

 

[Silly Bee]

Are you hoping to start collecting honey already?

Personally I'd leave them alone.

 

[rae]

I would also leave them alone at the moment, and would not have put the QX in yet. There is plenty of time for more cold weather this winter.

The way to deal with the "where is the queen" problem is simple. You don't deal with it. You put the QX in, and then at the next inspection, there are either eggs and larvae in the brood box or super. If in the brood, she's in the right place. If in the super, find her, and stick her in the brood. 3 weeks later, all of the eggs will have hatched, and the super will be ready for a full honey load.

 

[Deaner666]

So leave them until later in the spring when we identify the queen on a brood frame and then replace the QX?

I take it the odd egg or pupa in a super frame is fine as the honey's being filtered when it's taken off?

 

[Deaner666]

Ha... you beat me to it Rae!

Cheers for the advice guys.

 

[itma]

... I'm just entering my second year with my first colony.
...
On opening the hive, we were pleased to see that already there are a large number of bees in the hive - they seem to be doing really well.
...
How can you get the QX back on safe in the knowledge that the queen is in the brood box? ...

One possibility that you may have considered is to run on brood and a half this year, as there would be a greater risk of your (bigger this year) colony swarming if you left it in a single National BB.
In which case, the QX would just go on top of your existing brood shallow ("super"), with additional honey supers to go above the QX.

 

[Deaner666]

Hi Itma... The colony is in a commercial hive, so bigger brood box than a standard national. They seem to be a pretty prolific colony though, and as I mentioned in the OP, there's already a mass of bees in there!

 

[drstitson]

it's still winter. a cold snap could come along in the next month and HM could end up trapped away from the cluster and food.

QE is only needed when there is a flow and you are aiming to get some honey stored.

so what if HM lays in the super - on a warm day in march find HM, pop her in the brood box, add a QE and wait three weeks for all brood to hatch.

a super in winter is either there as a source of vital stores OR as a large empty space for the bees to keep warm.

QE has no place until spring.

BTW haven't you been paying attention to the pronouncements of your local weather guru, Tamar Tim??? He saw his shadow on the 2nd., so.....

 

[BeeNice]

Don't worry about opening up or QX just yet, you have plenty of time, leave well alone, heft the hive to see how much food they have left, this is the danger time for bees, running out of food before the start of the season really starts we can still get a really cold snap. You don't have to find the queen before putting the QX back. As long as you have fresh eggs the queen will be around and about that frame, if you can't see the queen and have eggs you have a queen present. If you put on the QX and you don't know if the queen is above or below, wait a few days after you have the QX on and if there is eggs above the QX then that is where your queen is, if not then your queen is in the brood box. Read other threads on the go at the moment to see if brood and a half is for you, double would be best if and when you need it. Your bees will swarm this year so prepare for that, unless you are doing swarm control methods.
As others say, read a bee book until the spring, and then build a strong colony.
regards
Steven

 

[Deaner666]

it's still winter. a cold snap could come along in the next month and HM could end up trapped away from the cluster and food.

Yup, which is why I took it off. Was under the impression that this month was the month to put it back on after reading something about it in the BBKA mag.

QE is only needed when there is a flow and you are aiming to get some honey stored.

so what if HM lays in the super - on a warm day in march find HM, pop her in the brood box, add a QE and wait three weeks for all brood to hatch.

I guess this is really the information I needed and is in accordance with what others have advised here. Sometimes it's hard to know the right question to ask until you've discovered the answer!

a super in winter is either there as a source of vital stores OR as a large empty space for the bees to keep warm.

Mine was on there as a source of winter stores.

 

[BeeNice]

Don't go by the book, each season is different, you will need to judge for yourself.
steven

 

[enrico]

I agree. You can put a QE on too early but you can never really put it on too late. As explained in other replies but put into one to make it easier for you....
Wait until the weather warms up significantly and there is a noticeable flow on that will actually bring in more than stores they need to live on. The weather will be warmer and make it your first spring inspection. If you see the queen put her in the brood if she s not already there and add the QE. If you don't find her don't worry. Put the QE on anyway and a few days later have a quick look for eggs. If they are in the super then find HM and put her back in brood. It really is not a worry but you can do untold damage by putting it on too early. Eggs and Grubbs in super will long have gone before any honey collection! Best of luck
E

 

[drstitson]

Deaner - at what point last season did you remove the QE and what were the contents of the super like at that point? did you feed subsequently?

 

[mbc]

it's still winter. a cold snap could come along in the next month and HM could end up trapped away from the cluster and food.
Most queens will have put a bit of brood down by now and the bees will cluster round this and not in a broodless super.

QE is only needed when there is a flow and you are aiming to get some honey stored.
I like to keep my supers brood free, mostly to deter wax moths when in storage


so what if HM lays in the super - on a warm day in march find HM, pop her in the brood box, add a QE and wait three weeks for all brood to hatch.
This could encourage the bees to build q cells on brood with no footprint pheromone or if they are fairly week could make them abandon the brood and set the colony back.

a super in winter is either there as a source of vital stores OR as a large empty space for the bees to keep warm.

QE has no place until spring.

BTW haven't you been paying attention to the pronouncements of your local weather guru, Tamar Tim??? He saw his shadow on the 2nd., so.....

If you put the super below the brood box the bees are more likely to clear out the stores and more importantly ( to my mind ) the queen is less likely to lay in it. It should then be ready to put back above the brood box with the qx in place once the bees are strong enough.

 

[itma]

Hi Itma... The colony is in a commercial hive, so bigger brood box than a standard national. They seem to be a pretty prolific colony though, and as I mentioned in the OP, there's already a mass of bees in there!

My apologies for not noticing that your hive is the bigger Commercial ...
Even so, I gather that Year 2 is the time that most learning about swarming actually happens!

What drstitson wrote is good sense.
Unless you particularly want to get that super emptied (treatment residues? solid ivy honey? ??) before this year's honey gets mixed into it you can simply ignore it for quite a while yet.
With the one colony, you should be specially protective of HMQ, and particularly until mating season and potential replacement availability. One more reason for patience!
If you want to get that super cleaned out by the bees, I believe standard practice would be to shuffle it to under the BB. But even so, I don't think there's any need to worry about doing that just yet.
However, being in Cornwall, your season will likely start a few weeks earlier than it will for the rest of us!

 

[drstitson]

"QE is only needed when there is a flow and you are aiming to get some honey stored.

I like to keep my supers brood free, mostly to deter wax moths when in storage"

I was talking specifically about when a QE was needed NOT a super!

The only way to keep supers brood free is to only use them as supers and NEVER part of the brood nest (ie only would on multiples of full brood chambers for brood and supers for the supers). No overwintering on brood and a half.

 

[Cazza]

Yup, which is why I took it off. Was under the impression that this month was the month to put it back on after reading something about it in the BBKA mag.
QUOTE]

The lesson is: don't believe everything you read.........
Cazza

 

[oliver90owner]

Haven't seen any mention of what is in this shallow, I think. If it is sugar syrup, it needs to be used up, or dealt with, before honey is collected in the super.

On opening the hive, we were pleased to see that already there are a large number of bees in the hive

Leave them alone until spring arrives. The bees you saw were there last year. There are likely very few new bees since then. May, of course, be some, down your neck of the woods, and spring may have arrived down there. Certainly hasn't in Lincolnshire.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

as the weather was fine and warm, we decided to put the QX back on (again as advised by a recent "In the Apiary" article).

When does it tell you to take the matchsticks out?

 

[drstitson]

more importantly - do the matchsticks go above or below the QE?