Queen Trouble

[markb2603]

A story as old as time. I had two very expensive queens (in my book anyway) arrive the other day about a week later than initially thought. I had made up 2 nucs exactly 14 days before and checked for queen cells at day 7 and removed any. Based on the assumption they were now hopelessly queenless I pulled the tabs and introduced the queens on Wednesday evening. Both nucs seemed happy and I could see some feeding going on so assumed all alright. Opened up today to check to see if they were released and both cases the same, queen under a pile of bees on the floor being balled. I managed to get both out and back into cages. I sealed up the cages good and proper and put them back in the nucs while I think what to do. What should I do?

• Will the queens be alright and looked after in the cages for a few days?
• By leaving them in for say a week or so, could the nucs then accept the queens? Or because they have balled them, that’s it, no chance? I saw something on another post mentioning chances of success are slim once the queen has been balled.
• Should I just bite the bullet and make up 2 new nucs for these queens (introduce the cages straight away and release after 48 hours) and put test frames in the existing nucs to see if I missed a queen cell?
• After all this, one of the queens is grand and bombing around the cage. The other is curled her abdomen over a bit and while moving, she didn’t seem to be using her back legs and was slow in her movements. Is she done for?
• What did I do wrong? strange that these two would react the same way while when I’ve introduced queens in the past using the same method, no issues at all.

A learning experience as always. First time I’ve been able to pick a queen up and put her in a cage. Shows what a bit of adrenaline can do

 

[rolande]

In answer to "what" you did wrong, you checked too soon. Chances are both queens were being accepted until you disturbed the nucs.

But you've untangled two balling events and caged two queens -if there was a course for learning to do that it would cost a fair bit.

 

[markb2603]

Yes, I knew I was going in a bit early. My reasoning behind that was due to the cages being far to big to fit in the gap between frames (first time I’ve seen that) and I wanted to remove them before any burr comb got built. I have queen introduction cages, I wonder if I put them in one of those for a week or so, would they be accepted then or should I leave them to it now and just release them in a week or so? It’s a hard one. Once you make a mistake you just want to fix it but obviously the more messing you do the more upset you’re causing the hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What did I do wrong?

faffed around with making them 'hopelessly queenless' next time, don't make up the nuc (or kill the present recumbent if requeening) until the new queen is in your pocket, pop her in and the next day break the tab, apart from going in a few days later to remove the empty queen cage, leave them in peace for a couple of weeks.

 

[markb2603]

I’ve had great success with that method though, small sample size to date but those are the first 2 that didn’t take.

 

[rolande]

I’ve had great success with that method though, small sample size to date but those are the first 2 that didn’t take.

Well, they probably would have been fine but for the inspection. I wouldn't have worried about removing the cage -any comb issue would be relatively minor and easily sorted at a later date. But presumably there was some kind of comb removal to see the queen on the bottom board unless the cages left a really massive gap between combs.

 

[Antipodes]

A story as old as time. I had two very expensive queens (in my book anyway) arrive the other day about a week later than initially thought. I had made up 2 nucs exactly 14 days before and checked for queen cells at day 7 and removed any. Based on the assumption they were now hopelessly queenless I pulled the tabs and introduced the queens on Wednesday evening. Both nucs seemed happy and I could see some feeding going on so assumed all alright. Opened up today to check to see if they were released and both cases the same, queen under a pile of bees on the floor being balled. I managed to get both out and back into cages. I sealed up the cages good and proper and put them back in the nucs while I think what to do. What should I do?

• Will the queens be alright and looked after in the cages for a few days?
• By leaving them in for say a week or so, could the nucs then accept the queens? Or because they have balled them, that’s it, no chance? I saw something on another post mentioning chances of success are slim once the queen has been balled.
• Should I just bite the bullet and make up 2 new nucs for these queens (introduce the cages straight away and release after 48 hours) and put test frames in the existing nucs to see if I missed a queen cell?
• After all this, one of the queens is grand and bombing around the cage. The other is curled her abdomen over a bit and while moving, she didn’t seem to be using her back legs and was slow in her movements. Is she done for?
• What did I do wrong? strange that these two would react the same way while when I’ve introduced queens in the past using the same method, no issues at all.

A learning experience as always. First time I’ve been able to pick a queen up and put her in a cage. Shows what a bit of adrenaline can do

Well done. Sometimes things don't work with bees, even though they have before.
I'd say follow the advice in post #4.
Balling generally seems to damage them, but not always. Did the one with the bad legs recover? I wouldn't do your second option, but try perhaps the third, with the youngest of bees that you can find.