P**nes Poly Hives

[ultreen1]

Is that a wooden super on top of the brown hive?
Doesn't rain get in?

Just to add to swarms comment, the bees glue/seal the CB down so I've never had water in any of the hives and I mostly use wooden supers with poly broods.

And the colour on my blue one is cuprinol shades forget me not blue, the purple is summer damson.




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[Erichalfbee]

They are designed to take poly or wood. There is a flat, mating face that takes a wooden super and the 'excess' ledge slopes downwards to facilitate run off. Take a look at the blue one, that ledge you see below the 'pillars' has a gentle downward slope
I thought it looked more purple, it reminded me of yours.

Thanks Swarm...I can see that on the blue one. Just looked flatter on the other.
Brown....sheesh I knew I should have put maroon the minute I hit reply

 

[itma]

The only problem I've had with leaking mixed-in wooden bits is where the mould valve indents were excessively pronounced and open to the outside of the flat mating face. (Filling the indents sorts the problem.)

/ standard limitations are that you can't put a Payns super directly on a Payns floor or a wooden roof directly over a Payns box.
I don't like the idea of a wooden super (less insulated) over a well-insulated poly brood box - unless the wooden box is simply protecting a piece of Kingspan-type insulation.
One of my Payns hives that currently experimentally topped with a naked 460mm square of Celotex above the framed clear coverboard and under the (old-style) Payns roof (with extra bricks on top!)

 

[Norfolk]

.......... or a wooden roof directly over a Payns box.......

Just wondering why you would want to use a wooden roof rather than a poly one?

Sorry if it has already been explained.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Another sorry if it's been done.
Can you make a ------ hives top bee space?
i.e. does the hive have runners which maybe you could remove to make that space.

 

[theeggman]

Another sorry if it's been done.
Can you make a ------ hives top bee space?
i.e. does the hive have runners which maybe you could remove to make that space.

Yes, they are supplied with metal runners which just push into a slot, BUT the frames will rest on a ledge of poly similar to the nuc box from P's and will be a begger to move once prop'd in place.

Tim

 

[Swarm]

I went to the apiary today to pop boards in to check varroa after MAQS in July, so I took a couple of picks to show a clearer view of the roof mod.

The blue colour is 'Lakeside', B&Q's own silk emulsion. It looked lovely at home but I added the rest to break the profile up a bit. You can certainly see a difference.

Itma,
You're overthinking the insulation a bit IMO. By all means encourage healthy build up in the brood nest but come summer, when adding supers, the temps are not a worry, plus you can insulate the crownboard. I wouldn't overwinter like this but I wouldn't discard perfectly good wooden supers either.

 

[itma]

Itma,
You're overthinking the insulation a bit IMO. By all means encourage healthy build up in the brood nest but come summer, when adding supers, the temps are not a worry, plus you can insulate the crownboard. I wouldn't overwinter like this ...

It was specifically overwintering that I was considering.

Yes, summer is the time when you'd expect to get away with that mix - even I don't think Payns original roof needs extra insulation in summer - but it benefits from a bit of help in the winter.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'll resurrect this with a feeder question.
My P a y n e s box arrived today
Husband was there so I had to open it up in front of him ;(

The gap under the removable inserts in the middle of the new feeder is 15mm.
Large enough for bees to get through when the syrup level falls.....or am I missing something?

I sat and looked at it for ages....convincing myself that bees would swim under and drown.
It is just a poly Miller feeder....a feeder I am familiar with.....where the gap is much smaller.

EDIT
OK this is what I got from Paynes.....

Many thanks for the order. yes, that is a design feature as it enables the bees to clean out the feeder at the end of the use and stops any syrup going mouldy because they cant get to it. You can also use the area to place neopoll or other pollen supplement and the bees can access it still.

Best Regards

Roger

Has anybody used these successfully ?

 

[user 6228]

It was specifically overwintering that I was considering.

Yes, summer is the time when you'd expect to get away with that mix - even I don't think Payns original roof needs extra insulation in summer - but it benefits from a bit of help in the winter.

Summer is when there is the greatest heat demand remember your bees have to supply the energy to remove 300kg of water during the summer...
That is a lot of heat....The supers need insulating to reduce losses.

From a thermal engineering perspective, spring/summer is the most interesting time.

 

[itma]

I don't think it has been thought through properly.

Once the level falls and they are under the bar and into the main feeder 'tank' areas, how do you refill the thing? (without drowning bees!)

Because the feeder tank areas do not have a lid, any bees in there can fly straight out at you once you have taken the lid off.


I'm used to 'rapid feeders' that I can refill. To avoid robbing, I refill after dark. Because the bees cannot get out from under the 'cone', I can refill (after dark) without suiting up.
Couldn't do that with Paynes feeder.

I can just take the cone out to let the bees scavenge clean the last of the syrup - or use it that way for 'feeding' cappings. By leaving the lid on the feeder, the bees are still contained.
I wouldn't feed fondant or pollen patties (winter remember) in any up-and-over feeder.
If you used the Paynes one in that fashion, you'd be giving the bees access to the roof/feeder join - which they will propolise.

I'm afraid that I still think Paynes feeder(s) are somewhat misconceived.
I (mostly) like the hives, but not the feeders.

 

[Ely]

Is there any reason why you can't feed the same way you would with a wooden hive?

 

[itma]

Summer is when there is the greatest heat demand remember your bees have to supply the energy to remove 300kg of water during the summer...
That is a lot of heat....The supers need insulating to reduce losses.

From a thermal engineering perspective, spring/summer is the most interesting time.

Derek, I understand what you are saying, but if you chase the conversation back, the comment regarding overwintering that I was defending was

I don't like the idea of a wooden super (less insulated) over a well-insulated poly brood box - unless the wooden box is simply protecting a piece of Kingspan-type insulation.

// ADDED and I'm sure you have noticed that you are resurrecting a rather long-forgotten conversation! (My comment was dated 1st December)

 

[itma]

Is there any reason why you can't feed the same way you would with a wooden hive?

None whatsoever. I do.

Its just that Paynes sell this ... thing!
They have 'redesigned' it once, but the "use the roof as a lid" concept is flawed -- particularly when combined with bee-access to the tanks when the syrup level gets low.

 

[Ely]

None whatsoever. I do.

Its just that Paynes sell this ... thing!
They have 'redesigned' it once, but the "use the roof as a lid" concept is flawed -- particularly when combined with bee-access to the tanks when the syrup level gets low.

I couldn't see any logical reason. I just wondered why they had invented a feeder so thought best to ask. I have one. When the syrup ran out they filled it with comb and ivy honey because I didn't remove it in time. Didn't like it

 

[itma]

...
The gap under the removable inserts in the middle of the new feeder is 15mm.
Large enough for bees to get through when the syrup level falls.....or am I missing something?

I sat and looked at it for ages....convincing myself that bees would swim under and drown.
It is just a poly Miller feeder....a feeder I am familiar with.....where the gap is much smaller.
...

Yes it is just a Miller feeder, and with a too-large gap under the 'inserts'. And no lid.

Not too hard to 'customise' if you (too) think they have (still) got the details wrong.

 

[theeggman]

Thanks folks
If you look at post 1 the idea was to give feedback to P's.
If we don't they think everything in the garden is rosy we can give feedback.
I hope they will take the comments as constructive and look into the issues.

Is it time to start a similar thread for the other hive suppliers?

Tim:

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not too hard to 'customise' if you (too) think they have (still) got the details wrong.

I agree,itma.....and thanks.
I will customise......
But how difficult would it have been .....as a major supplier....to have thought this through and made the design fit for purpose.

 

[Headnavigator]

I'll resurrect this with a feeder question.
My P a y n e s box arrived today
Husband was there so I had to open it up in front of him ;(

The gap under the removable inserts in the middle of the new feeder is 15mm.
Large enough for bees to get through when the syrup level falls.....or am I missing something?

I sat and looked at it for ages....convincing myself that bees would swim under and drown.
It is just a poly Miller feeder....a feeder I am familiar with.....where the gap is much smaller.

EDIT
OK this is what I got from Paynes.....

Many thanks for the order. yes, that is a design feature as it enables the bees to clean out the feeder at the end of the use and stops any syrup going mouldy because they cant get to it. You can also use the area to place neopoll or other pollen supplement and the bees can access it still.

Best Regards

Roger

Has anybody used these successfully ?

Am just cursing because I did a split yesterday into a new P****s poly Nat and put the poly feeder on top, peeped in just now and I have tooooo many drowned bees. I have used similar wooden feeders on cedar hives before and am pretty sure have set it up right. What has gone wrong? Are these feeders simply not fit for purpose, or what? I can't see the point in putting floats in because any sinking bee who clambers onto a float will still have to submarine under the barrier to get back in the hive, unless I leave the clear cover off, then they can all fly up and drown in the syrup.

 

[jd101k2000]

I've just started using one of these feeders. I had assumed they were like Miller feeders until I took off the cover and had a load fly up at me... those were the ones that hadn't drowned.

I think that the easiest solution would be to get some thin plastic that could slide in inside the two inserts and reaches to the bottom of the feeder. Cut a few narrow slits in it to let the syrup flow in. 




        ____________ <----------clear cover                             
|       //   / \   \\     |
|      //   /   \   \\    |
|      /   /     \   \    |
----------        ---------
                      ^original insert
                     ^ new insert, with slits, that reaches to the floor of the feeder