Overwintering with double brood boxes

[Cazza]

If you go down the artificial swarm (or snelgrove route) of swarm control and don't really want the exponential increase in colony numbers that results from this then you can winter on Double brood by uniting the AS back to the original hive in late August (retaining the youngest or best queen). This means less feeding needed for winter and less expense on Varroa treatment. Bigger colonies for winter increases chances of winter survival and colonies comes out of winter in spring much stronger to take advantage of OSR crops.

Works well for me.
Cazza

 

[Finman]

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Double brood in winter is needed, if one brood is too small for the winter cluster.

Before winter feeding, when you start to feed them, move the brood frames in lower box and empty frames to upper. Move the pollen frames up, that bees can easily eate pollen when they start brooding.

If a hive has brood only in one box, it never needs two boxes for winter. 10-15 frames of brood before winter feeding need 2 brood.

If hive has only 6 frames of brood, the wintering room is better to restrict to 7 frames with dummy board.

 

[Finman]

If they start to lay brood in it is what I meant by messing up. There is also a tendency for the colour to darken.

Yes, they start lay brood. Or if not, they have not queen then.

And brood cells darken because a larva makes some feces into a cell before it becomes a pupa. That is normal in beehive. It is not a tendency. It is a system.

The queen material must be quite good that queens are able to lay more than one box.
It needs continuous selection and renewing the queens.

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[Michael Palmer]

I've always used double brood+a super as my broodnest. No excluders. We need big clusters of young bees going into winter, plus much more honey than you all need. So, there has to be enough comb space for raising that big cluster, and store all the required winter feed. The bees can't do both in the same comb. By spring, the bees are located above the bottom box...in the top two boxes. Empty comb space below the cluster doesn't effect the bees' ability to keep their cluster warm. In fact, I believe it helps in my climate. Think, High and Dry.

 

[Finman]

I've always used double brood+a super as my broodnest. No excluders. We need big clusters of young bees going into winter, plus much more honey than you all need. So, there has to be enough comb space for raising that big cluster, and store all the required winter feed. The bees can't do both in the same comb. By spring, the bees are located above the bottom box...in the top two boxes. Empty comb space below the cluster doesn't effect the bees' ability to keep their cluster warm. In fact, I believe it helps in my climate. Think, High and Dry.

American beehives need much food for winter food, because you do not have there insulated hives.

I suppose that most of Finnish professionals keep one box over winter.

One thing in USA is that you do not have there locally adapted queens. It is same mass from Florida to Alaska, and bees do not react properly to winter arrival.

in Finland wintering hive needs on average 20 kg sugar to live from September to May. Thanks to insulation. ---and bee breeding. Most popular is Italian bee.

For example NZ bees/queens do not go over winter alive.

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[Michael Palmer]

American beehives need much food for winter food, because you do not have there insulated hives.

I suppose that most of Finnish professionals keep one box over winter.

One thing in USA is that you do not have there locally adapted queens. It is same mass from Florida to Alaska, and bees do not react properly to winter arrival.

in Finland wintering hive needs on average 20 kg sugar to live from September to May. Thanks to insulation. ---and bee breeding. Most popular is Italian bee.

For example NZ bees/queens do not go over winter alive.

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Perhaps, but locally adapted queens? Not all of us bother with the inferior bees from southern states. My bees winter well, as I raise all my own stocks here from bees that perform well here.

 

[Finman]

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I have nursed all my 50 years without excluder. I have tried sometimes them.

Sometimes all my hives have 2 brood in winter, sometimes half of hives.
Of course nucs are in one box.

Only 2-box wintering hives are able to forage surplus honey in early summer when apple trees and dandelions bloom.

 

[Finman]

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Mikael Palmer lives in Vermont. There are quite hard winters

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Map_of_USA_VT.svg

Just now days temps about -4C - -1C in St Albans http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/US/VT/Saint_Albans.html



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[Michael Palmer]

Our temperatures fluctuate wildly. Right now, we're at the warmest in a number of days. 20F We've been down to -2F and a few days ago, the high for the day was 8F. In the last few years, it seems, we get a big storm that dumps a couple feet of snow, then it warms up and rains. We only have 4" of snow now, and I'm actually looking forward to a few feet on the ground as soon as possible. With the temperatures we have, it protects the plants and prevents the clover and alfalfa from heaving in the fields and dying. With no snow protection, our ground can freeze to 4' deep.

When it thaws, we have our fourth season of the year...Mud Season

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Mikael Palmer lives in Vermont. There are quite hard winters

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Map_of_USA_VT.svg

Just now days temps about -4C - -1C in St Albans http://www.wunderground.com/weather-forecast/US/VT/Saint_Albans.html



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[BeeJayBee]

I've heard of people adding a lower box to make the upper box and any stores further from the entrance, to deter mice. The lower box will be colder, less attractive. It also means there's less air disturbance higher up, so the upper box stays warmer.

How does it deter mice?

It might not deter them, as such, so it was probably the wrong word to use. Some say it's less attractive to mice than a single brood box.

The theory seems to be that mice are attracted to somewhere warm with food. The lower part of the lower box will be cold because the bees won't be heating it, if it's open mesh it could be draughty. There won't be any food there, because as the bees move upwards they leave empty comb behind. Wax on its own isn't very palatable, although they'll have a go at eating it. There will still be the risk of being stung to death on days when the bees are active, because they have to go down to the entrance and will spot an intruder.