Not able to sustain queens

[mbees]

This season I have 5 queens. From a nuc in May the hive has swarmed in June and from then I have had swarm cells , supercedure cells and now emergency cells. I have managed to get enough eggs out off each queen to sustain the colony throughout the season. However I now find myself after having to introduce a new mated queen over a week ago the hive is again queen less and with no brood, eggs or larvae. Although the colony is very calm if will not survive the winter. I have an option to merge the hive with a poly nuc with a good queen which is situated only a few feet away. But really wondered if I should. Does anybody know if the hive itself may cause these problems. Currently the brood frames are currently being filled with nectar and pollen!

 

[yeogi75]

have you got your bees in a nuc or full sized hive

 

[user 6228]

have you got your bees in a nuc or full sized hive

good question, I would like to hear from the experienced whether they put "unsettled colonies" into full size hives. Extrapolating from the research would suggest you put them into 40L boxes until "settled"

 

[rolande]

Extrapolating from the research would suggest you put them into 40L boxes until "settled"

Which research are you referring to?

 

[sharonh]

This season I have 5 queens. From a nuc in May the hive has swarmed in June and from then I have had swarm cells , supercedure cells and now emergency cells. I have managed to get enough eggs out off each queen to sustain the colony throughout the season. However I now find myself after having to introduce a new mated queen over a week ago the hive is again queen less and with no brood, eggs or larvae. Although the colony is very calm if will not survive the winter. I have an option to merge the hive with a poly nuc with a good queen which is situated only a few feet away. But really wondered if I should. Does anybody know if the hive itself may cause these problems. Currently the brood frames are currently being filled with nectar and pollen!

Are you positive they have no queen?
You said the bees are very quiet & drawing in nectar & pollen. With no queen, they would normally be agitated. Also why hasn't some of the workers started laying, re laying workers.
Some newly mated queens can be slow to start. I thought at one stage that one of my colony's were queenless, that she didn't get back from a mating flight.
34 days and no eggs, but bees were quiet so decided to put a test frame in. Left it for a week and when opened, there were several frames with eggs. Kicked her into action. They are thriving now.
Try a test frame. I would not be tempted in merging incase you lose your queen from other hive.
If test frame gives no results, I would smoke them so they take in as much of their stores that they can, and then I would shake the lot out infront of your good hive. They will beg to get in, if their own home is gone. And if full of honey, might will be let in quicker. At least then you are not putting your other queen at risk.
Try test frame first.

 

[mbees]

Hi there in a full size national but since they swarmed they have only been in a brood box and no super

 

[mbees]

Thanks I will try this, as a new beekeeper this season I only have frames with foundation. At this time in the season would it be better to have fully drawn frames

 

[sharonh]

Thanks I will try this, as a new beekeeper this season I only have frames with foundation. At this time in the season would it be better to have fully drawn frames

A test frame is a frame from another colony that has eggs in it.
Take one of these frames from the hive that has a laying queen and give it to the colony that you think has no queen.
Leave it there for 4/5 days, then check it to see if they are building emergency queen cells. If they do, then you will know for sure that they are queenless. Then it is safe to unite them with another that has a queen.
You say that you haven't many drawn wax frames. How many frames are these bees on? And are they in a nuc hive or full sized brood box? How many frames are drawn out?

 

[Dishmop]

Perhaps they dont like being poked about....


You say you introduced the queen just over a week ago........and you cant find any eggs, and now she's gone....

How long was the queen in the cage?

 

[sharonh]

So they are in a hive. On how many frames and how many of these frames are drawn.
Small colony's should be dummied down with a dummy board with insulation behind. Only one undrawn frame each side of brood nest at a time. Wait until these are fully drawn before adding another. They need warmth. Too much space to try and keep warm in a full sized brood box.

 

[sharonh]

Perhaps they dont like being poked about....


You say you introduced the queen just over a week ago........and you cant find any eggs, and now she's gone....

How long was the queen in the cage?

I agree,
Too much being poked about.

The new queen may not have started laying yet. Only a week gone.
Patience is needed .

 

[mbees]

A test frame is a frame from another colony that has eggs in it.
Take one of these frames from the hive that has a laying queen and give it to the colony that you think has no queen.
Leave it there for 4/5 days, then check it to see if they are building emergency queen cells. If they do, then you will know for sure that they are queenless. Then it is safe to unite them with another that has a queen.
You say that you haven't many drawn wax frames. How many frames are these bees on? And are they in a nuc hive or full sized brood box? How many frames are drawn out?

Thanks this is helpful. Cheers

 

[mbees]

I agree,
Too much being poked about.

The new queen may not have started laying yet. Only a week gone.
Patience is needed .

Hi the queen was introduced in a butler cage 10 days ago. When I inspected a few days later I she was out. This weekend has been the first inspection and was expecting larvae to be present, unfortunately there was none. I have been reading elsewhere in this forum and this can be fairly common . I am just a bit concerned that no brood so late will reduce te chances of the colony getting through the winter. The hive has currently 12 frames in it the outer two are bare foundation the next two are currently being drawn out the remainder are either capped or uncapped honey no space to lay eggs.

 

[sharonh]

Hi the queen was introduced in a butler cage 10 days ago. When I inspected a few days later I she was out. This weekend has been the first inspection and was expecting larvae to be present, unfortunately there was none. I have been reading elsewhere in this forum and this can be fairly common . I am just a bit concerned that no brood so late will reduce te chances of the colony getting through the winter. The hive has currently 12 frames in it the outer two are bare foundation the next two are currently being drawn out the remainder are either capped or uncapped honey no space to lay eggs.

Your after answering your own question. NO space to lay eggs.
So where can the newly introduced queen lay?
You need to get out some of them frames of stores or move them to the outside part of brood nest. Move some empty drawn frames into the centre of the brood nest for a queen to lay in.
If brood nest is full of stores, where can a queen lay. That's why there is no eggs or brood. You need to sort this ASAP.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Your after answering your own question. NO space to lay eggs.
So where can the newly introduced queen lay?
You need to get out some of them frames of stores or move them to the outside part of brood nest. Move some empty drawn frames into the centre of the brood nest for a queen to lay in.
If brood nest is full of stores, where can a queen lay. That's why there is no eggs or brood. You need to sort this ASAP.

introduced queens usually start laying straight away although I've had a few who have taken quite some time to start (one was around this time last year - no eggs for ages but this year the colony has produced over 120 pounds of honey and has filled another super the last ten days.) but if she ain't got no space to lay.................

 

[Dishmop]

Hi the queen was introduced in a butler cage 10 days ago. When I inspected a few days later I she was out. This weekend has been the first inspection and was expecting larvae to be present, unfortunately there was none.

I think you might be expecting and inspecting too much too quick...