Northumberland Honey Queens

[boywonder]

... specifically their black queens ...

Does anybody on the Forum have any expecience of these, and their permformance? I'd be very keen to hear any anecdotal feedback; most specifically as to their temperament/docility.

I bought one a couple of months ago, and was wearing my "bad beekeeper" hat when it came to the introduction (completely my own fault), so I lost her. It's just that I'm just considering buying another, but am wondering what, if any, attributes they might have which both justify £40 of my hard-earned ... and the squishing of a perfectly adequate local mongrel queen (albeit of unknown provenance).

On the odd occasion I have chosen to buy in queens previously (to freshen up the genetic mix, and to give the odd hive/nuc a more reliable leader), I have bought from BS, BHP and Exmoor, with generally favourable results, but would like a black bee this time around.

Comments welcome. Thanks.

 

[REDWOOD]

Why a black Queen ?

 

[Markthebuilder]

They are local to me . And this year I collected a nuc in spring. It built very well and was a friendly hive . I split it and the queen they raised was fantastic and the bees she produced were also friendly. Unfortunately when adding uniting her with a queen less colony I dropped and lost her. I have since purchased 2 queens one from their dark bee line and one bukfest type, Both were accepted quickly by their respective hives and are now been left to their own devices whilst I’m on holiday

Servise/postage communication excellent

 

[Markthebuilder]

Their bukie type they sell as vhs. Their dark bee they expect to sell as vhs from next year

I don’t think they claim pure Amm but they selectively breed and have isolated apiaries etc etc

 

[boywonder]

Why a black Queen ?

Just because...

I mean, this Forum can adopt the feel of an EDL rally when people feel the need to defend/attack a particular strain.

I've never been too fussy (redhead, blonde, black, white, tall, short, chunky, slim, complicated or uncomplicated etc... you've got to be open minded, no (?) otherwise you don't know what you're missing )

The way I look at it, all my queens are going to end up dark and of mixed background a few generations down the line in any case. That's fine with me, and I have no especial interest in maintaining stocks of one 'type' - although I appreciate others do. I've had an OK experience with Buckfasts, but nothing to write home about. Generally, I've found them to be fecund and calm, but I can't say that I personally prefer keeping them; I have not found them generally to gather much more honey than my other bees. I prefer Carniolans, I like their temperament, and the way they generally build up (and store) quickly in spring; but they can be swarmy. Horses for courses I guess.

In the main, I have decided to aim to rear and keep a more locally adapted hybrid bee, and have tried my hand at grafting from my best colony this year. The grafts were broadly successful(-ish) (11 out of 24 in total), but then wasps completely ravaged 8 of the 11 3-frame mating nucs I had set up, whilst I was away on holiday (and, yes, I had taken adequate precautions - so I thought).

So, now, as the season draws to the close, I don't have the number of spare queens I was expecting, in order to freshen up a couple of my other colonies pre-winter (notably a couple of swarms, whose own genetic provenance is unknown to me) .... so really, as I say, in order to invigorate the gene pool, I am looking to introduce some darker genes from ANOther source - so the typology is more in line with what I want to raise/keep in the future - that's all.

 

[elainemary]

Just because...

I mean, this Forum can adopt the feel of an EDL rally when people feel the need to defend/attack a particular strain.

I've never been too fussy (redhead, blonde, black, white, tall, short, chunky, slim, complicated or uncomplicated etc... you've got to be open minded, no (?) otherwise you don't know what you're missing )

The way I look at it, all my queens are going to end up dark and of mixed background a few generations down the line in any case. That's fine with me, and I have no especial interest in maintaining stocks of one 'type' - although I appreciate others do. I've had an OK experience with Buckfasts, but nothing to write home about. Generally, I've found them to be fecund and calm, but I can't say that I personally prefer keeping them; I have not found them generally to gather much more honey than my other bees. I prefer Carniolans, I like their temperament, and the way they generally build up (and store) quickly in spring; but they can be swarmy. Horses for courses I guess.

In the main, I have decided to aim to rear and keep a more locally adapted hybrid bee, and have tried my hand at grafting from my best colony this year. The grafts were broadly successful(-ish) (11 out of 24 in total), but then wasps completely ravaged 8 of the 11 3-frame mating nucs I had set up, whilst I was away on holiday (and, yes, I had taken adequate precautions - so I thought).

So, now, as the season draws to the close, I don't have the number of spare queens I was expecting, in order to freshen up a couple of my other colonies pre-winter (notably a couple of swarms, whose own genetic provenance is unknown to me) .... so really, as I say, in order to invigorate the gene pool, I am looking to introduce some darker genes from ANOther source - so the typology is more in line with what I want to raise/keep in the future - that's all.

My nearest beekeeping neighbour has bought a couple from Northumberland bees and he is v happy. I was happy too as he started with Buckfast which don’t do well at our altitude (south Pennines) but has converted to a hardier bee after my ‘lobbying’. I often see his bees in my garden as they are black and smaller than my dark bees with v few bandings. Not sure how consistent they are as open mated, however he remarked how well they were doing for him when I saw him a couple of weeks ago. Be interesting to hear what others have to say.

 

[Markthebuilder]

I understand the nostalgia of wanting to keep amm /use wbc hives etc it’s how I was .and started with an amm nuc.,
I also understand those who would like to protect , raise and develop pure amm their skills investment and dedication should be admired, and supported where possible
For the majority of us I think we take pot luck once our bees raise their own queens.therefore
I also think we can all do our bit by investing at least occasionally in queens that those with the reasourses skills etc have breed to be vhs etc
And I’m sure any bees from Northumberland which is higher than most of England would do well anywhere regardless of their colour

 

[Wilco]

Have had both types off them, trying two dark queens early June. Buckfast generally seem docile and do alright but not performed as well as my other 'AMM' descent colonies. Both dark queens AWOL. One superceded fairly rapidly, other just disappeared after a few weeks. Had been gentle up to those points.

 

[Wilco]

And I’m sure any bees from Northumberland which is higher than most of England would do well anywhere regardless of their colour

This was my logic although the local ones I've got have done better this year.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Have had both types off them, trying two dark queens early June. Buckfast generally seem docile and do alright but not performed as well as my other 'AMM' descent colonies. Both dark queens AWOL. One superceded fairly rapidly, other just disappeared after a few weeks. Had been gentle up to those points.

When I spoke to Luke he did say that supercedure was a trait they selected for in preference to swarming … I’m not sure how that works.. , I also lost my queen after a couple of months but then found the super was half full of brood…… another lesson learned.

 

[Ian123]

When I spoke to Luke he did say that supercedure was a trait they selected for in preference to swarming … I’m not sure how that works.. , I also lost my queen after a couple of months but then found the super was half full of brood…… another lesson learned.

Supercedure in the first few months of a queens life is simply a sign of poor mating not something you’d breed for. In fairness it’s not the suppliers fault you just can’t tell. A percentage of newly mated queens get up and running then fail. I may be a little more concerned he was giving this as a reason

 

[Mabee]

... specifically their black queens ...

Does anybody on the Forum have any expecience of these, and their permformance? I'd be very keen to hear any anecdotal feedback; most specifically as to their temperament/docility.

Mine disappeared and the first inspection after acceptance I found emergency cells. The daughter (who I cannot spot) is really productive but not my calmest colony. I planned to combine with another colony just last week but found a great brood pattern when I checked and laying really well, temperament wise they are not bad but definitely more defensive than my other colonies.

 

[Mabee]

Sorry, my reply got merged with your question above...

I had an AMM Q from them but she disappeared (?) and on the first inspection after acceptance, I found emergency cells. The daughter (who I have yet to see) is really productive but it's not my calmest colony. I planned to combine with another colony just last week but found a great brood pattern when I checked and laying really well, temperament wise they are not too bad but definitely more defensive than my other colonies.

 

[REDWOOD]

Mmm

 

[Poly Hive]

It's perfectly possible to select for supersedure. At one time I had roughly 60% superseding and forty swarming. I just had a look at the site but they are out of stock it says. Not sure I want to start up anything this late on though.

 

[Brenda]

What I like about Black Bees is their beautiful Capping of my comb when they finish off the ripened honey, be it Section or frame, this is excellent from a selling point of view, however their temperament can put beekeepers off (sparky) although I can accept this as it is the end product I desire. The Yellow bees tend to be quieter on the comb, however their finished product is not so good for my purpose, plus I find they do not forage so much on cooler days. They have not the stamina really for this area, but at the end of the day it is up to each individual as we have all different likes.

 

[Apiarist]

... and the squishing of a perfectly adequate local mongrel queen (albeit of unknown provenance).

You mean, if you're going to kill your "perfectly adequate" Queen you want to make sure that what you are replacing her with is noticeably better?

Then, the ideal thing to do, would be to create two hives (nucs) from the original hive and introduce the new Queen into the hive with all the nurse bees as this is the biggest factor in successful Queen introduction (nurse bees show, I think, 1/7th the aggression to a newly introduced Queen). Come back a few days later, if the hive with the new queen is more aggressive then there's something seriously wrong with her (as none of her genetics has started affecting the characteristics of the hive), you would then need to wait for 6 weeks to see her true genetic characteristics... but this is all a bit too much for this late in the year, although it is still doable if you act quickly.

...your question seems to suggest that there is a very noticeable difference between hives with 65-75% ish Amm genetics as opposed to 90% ish Amm genetics, ... implying that there is a positive outcome for the beekeeper the greater the % of Amm in the hive... most beekeepers appear to focus on characteristics over the % of whatever genetics are in the bees.... Just saying.

 

[boywonder]

1.
You mean, if you're going to kill your "perfectly adequate" Queen you want to make sure that what you are replacing her with is noticeably better?

2.
Then, the ideal thing to do, would be to create two hives (nucs) from the original hive ...(etc..)

3.
...your question seems to suggest that there is a very noticeable difference between hives with 65-75% ish Amm genetics as opposed to 90% ish Amm genetics, ... implying that there is a positive outcome for the beekeeper the greater the % of Amm in the hive... most beekeepers appear to focus on characteristics over the % of whatever genetics are in the bees.... Just saying.

1. Yes, exactly that

2. Regarding nucs... Fair advice. Thanks

3. I'm not suggesting any such thing. In fact my question is really about the behavioural characteristics. On one level, I don't give too much of a monkeys how pure the Northumberland dark bees are - I'd just like to know if they are 'good'. The reason for looking at bringing in a dark bee (as opposed to Buckfast or Carnies) is solely that this type of stock is more closely aligned with the more locally adapted bees I want to migrate to over a period of time. I just don't want to invest £40 if the outcome is not likely to give me better bees than I might already have in the candidate colonies (caught swarms). On balance (and in the spirit of 'locally adapted'), I would normally keep these, and evaluate how they overwinter and start the next season. It's just that I have a few boxes in this bracket, and introducing some new genes into a couple of them feels like a sensible way to pep-up the apiary.

 

[Markthebuilder]

I haven’t compared their capping but can confirm my dark bees are often foraging when the others are not.
My original amm hive is still the only hive I will confidently open without ppe. ( maybe there not amm) I’m not saying the haven’t stung me they have and enough for me to have built up some resistance but I have always had to excuse it due to rough handling etc.

My lighter bees bukie type seam to have some guard bees that are more proactive.

I’m looking forward to some comparing my differing hives next year and seeing where I go from there.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That’s why I like to keep both. The black/ish bees produce more in a bad year. In a good year the orange ones far outperform them.