No Queen

[abbot ale]

Just done an inspection and put the super below the bb to get the honey moved up ready for winter. However there are no larvae present so I am queenless. Question is...... will I be OK at this time of year without a queen. I did see one queen cell but couldnt tell for sure if it had a grub in it.

 

[Anduril]

Not necessarily, the queen may be off lay. You have 2 hives, you could try a test frame. The queen cell you saw is either a queen cup or further developed, then a supersedure cell. If it is queenless then you would have to buy a queen or combine with your other hive. If it is queen right then the bees would kill the bought queen. Without a queen it will die over the winter.

 

[abbot ale]

Thanks Anduril You said try a test frame... whats that ?

 

[Anduril]

It's getting late in the season to try it, but you take a frame of bias (a frame containing eggs and young larvae) out of your other hive and place in the one that is queenless. If the hive is queenless they will draw out queen cells, unfortunately sometimes they don't. Do you have a mentor or someone you can call upon to check the hive with you.

 

[Anduril]

If they do draw out queen cells, then you have a choice of combining the 2 hives together or buy a mated queen, there are some still available from certain breeders.

 

[abbot ale]

OK. but will they make a new queen once they realise they are queenless or is it too late in the season?

 

[Anduril]

You are further north than me, if they made a queen there is a probability that she will not mate properly this time of year. You could end up with a drone laying queen.

 

[Millet]

Its too late for Queen cells near to me and i can not remember the last time i seen a drone not that i look for them anyway, if i was in your situation i would go through the hive (preferably with someone experienced) for you and search and search till you can not search no more till you find or do not find the Queen, if you do not find her Unite the Q- hive too the other colony or if you are lucky buy a mated Queen in, BUT you need to be 100% certain you are Queenless before you do anything, it is a horrible situation to be in at this time of the year.
The best of luck.

 

[pargyle]

OK. but will they make a new queen once they realise they are queenless or is it too late in the season?

The question is ... do you have access to a frame with eggs on it in another hive - if you haven't then you have nothing to put in as a test frame.

So ... you HAVE to be certain that your hive is queenless ... if you do have a queen and you try and combine colonies then the two queens will fight. If you do have a frame to use as a test frame and they are queenless then they will start a queen cell within a few hours and in a day or so you will see the queen cell being built. You won't let that develop, you won't get a decent mated queen at this time from a queen cell - so you will knock the emergency queen cell down and you will then combine your two hives using a newspaper combine.

Assuming of course that you HAVE a second colony that is queenright !

If you haven't the wherewithall to put a test frame in as Millet says you will have to be absolutely certain there is no queen in the colony ... going through the hive frame by frame is going to be invasive - it would be easier if you have a second brood box that you could transfer the frames into as you go through the hive a frame at a time. If you have another box you could use a queen excluder to 'seive' the bees but it's a very disruptive process and they ain't gonna like it much.

 

[abbot ale]

Thanks very much I now understand the options open to me. Yes I do have a test frame available so will try that. I am guessing if I put the test frame in and nothing happens then I have a queen in there somewhere. When I have the results of the test frame do I leave it in or return to original hive? and where would be best position of test frame ie in the middle or at the end of the frames?

 

[pargyle]

Thanks very much I now understand the options open to me. Yes I do have a test frame available so will try that.

I am guessing if I put the test frame in and nothing happens then I have a queen in there somewhere. Possibly - not absolutely guaranteed but a good indicator ... if they draw queen cells then they are definitely queenless which is what you need to know

When I have the results of the test frame do I leave it in or return to original hive? Doesn't matter - knock the queen cells down and leave it or move it. If you move it then you need to replace it with another drawn frame - but you are going to be manipulating the hives anyway ..


and where would be best position of test frame ie in the middle or at the end of the frames? Middle of the hive is best, mark it with a marker pen or a drawing pin so you know which one it is then you can just lift a frame to one side of it and inspect just the test frame.

 

[Anduril]

Thanks very much I now understand the options open to me. Yes I do have a test frame available so will try that. I am guessing if I put the test frame in and nothing happens then I have a queen in there somewhere. When I have the results of the test frame do I leave it in or return to original hive? and where would be best position of test frame ie in the middle or at the end of the frames?

Place the frame in the middle of the hive, if they make queen cells remove them. You can leave the frame in the hive.