No larvae

[sheena]

Hi,

I have two hives started from two nucleus in May. At yesterday's inspection I could see larvae in neither hive.

Two weeks ago I removed the feeders. Last week I did not inspect them as it was very wet.

Hive 1: There appear to be plently of bees. They have started about 5 frames in the super. Yesterday I looked through all the frames in the brood box and saw bee's hatching ( don't know the correct term ) but I saw no larvae. ( no queen or eggs either although as a newbie this may not mean that there are no eggs and no queen ).

Hive 2: There is no activity in the super and less bees than there were in the brood box. No larvae. No eggs or queen that I could see. I put a feeder in with sugar syrup. I saw what looked like one feeble bee poking its head out of a brood cell. There are some dead bees outside this hive.

There is no bee poo outside the hives.

I started with two nucleus as I though that way I would at least make it through my first year with one hive. It looks as though something is going wrong with both though.

So what can I do? It is pouring with rain today, however if it dries off this afternoon I shall go out and inspect again and take some pictures, however not sure the weather is going to allow that and won't get another chance until next Friday.

I have been in touch with a queen bee seller whose last batch will be dispatched this Thursday so I am thinking I should order one. However which hive to tackle with it? How to be sure there is no queen hiding in there? Will they last another week without a queen if she really has gone? Should I try and get some sugar syrup into hive 2 as well even though they seem to have built up stores. Perhaps they took offense when I stopped feeding them? It might be too rainy for me to open up the hive but I could maybe put a tray of it under the hive?

I have been in touch with the nearest association to see if there is anyone near me who could come and have a look, however I am quite remote so don't think that there is anyone.

One more thing. Every time I do an inspection I seem to crush the odd bee when putting things back together. Is this normal? I try to brush them all out the way. Hopefully the queen's haven't gone this way!!

Any advice will be gratefully appreciated!

Thanks, Sheena

 

[Tom Bick]

During your inspection did you spot any queen cells by any chance

 

[sheena]

Hi, no I didn't see any queen cells. I will try and get some photos later today. The forecast says it may dry up a bit.

 

[keithgrimes]

One more thing. Every time I do an inspection I seem to crush the odd bee when putting things back together. Is this normal? I try to brush them all out the way. Hopefully the queen's haven't gone this way!!

Any advice will be gratefully appreciated!

Thanks, Sheena

Its perfectly normal. Its very difficult NOT to trap any bees at all when re assembling stuff. Even the most careful of beekeepers do it. a wooden wedge helps, and perhaps a puff or two of smoke.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi,





I have been in touch with the nearest association to see if there is anyone near me who could come and have a look, however I am quite remote so don't think that there is anyone.


Any advice will be gratefully appreciated!

Thanks, Sheena

Where are you, it helps if you change your location from UK to the area or Town you are near...you are not near me, as its been dry and 85F here for at least a week

 

[sheena]

I've updated my location now. I'm in Argyll. It rains a lot here!

 

[keithgrimes]

Try www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk

 

[plumberman]

Your big problem is determining whether there is a queen present or not. Standard advice is to put in a test frame of eggs/larvae and see whether they produce emergency QC's or not: put in a new queen where there is a queen present and your new queen will be dispatched very quickly. Best thing has to be to make contact with someone local as mentioned above.

PS - My first bees came from Tighnabruaich - my Uncle was the local GP in the late 70's and kept them in the back garden of his house ( just by the phone box along the shore road!). He felt that the occasional sting helped his arthritis! I was fascinated by them as a boy, and he gave me my first hive.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi,


Hive 1: There appear to be plently of bees. They have started about 5 frames in the super. Yesterday I looked through all the frames in the brood box and saw bee's hatching ( don't know the correct term ) but I saw no larvae. ( no queen or eggs either although as a newbie this may not mean that there are no eggs and no queen ).

Hive 2: There is no activity in the super and less bees than there were in the brood box. No larvae. No eggs or queen that I could see. I put a feeder in with sugar syrup. I saw what looked like one feeble bee poking its head out of a brood cell. There are some dead bees outside this hive.



Any advice will be gratefully appreciated!

Thanks, Sheena

so 14 days from last inspection, no queen, fewer bees

both could have swarmed, if you missed a QC or an egg or royal jelly in a play cup at the last inspection (or they started on the day before to make it)....over feeding could have cause honey block, where the bees bung the syrup everywhere ,if fed isyrup in a heavy flow [ no room to lay, lots of food,=swarm]

No larva now....so the latest you lost the queens was about 8-9 days ago (3 days egg, 5 days larva)...1st July ish

HOPEFULLY you now have two virgins about born 1day to 8 days agoand the QC has been pulled down, you would expect her to mate and then lay within 24-28 days of hatching , So look for eggs larva each week but dont expect them until end of july/early august

OR AM I too pesimistic

? re queen difficult, if they are the last queen, could buy one for insurance and make up a small three frame NUC, but if you have virgins queen the bought queen will be killed in main hive

 

[sheena]

Plumberman - I know the spot! Good to know bees can be happy here!

Muswell Metro - Thanks, I hope I've not made things worse, I just put a feeder into hive1. I thought things have gone down hill since I stopped feeding them so it might help to give them some more. They do still have plenty of room to lay. They have just started pulling out a couple of the frames and have another to start. However should I take it out again to be on the safe side?

I have been to inspect them again this afternoon and took some pictures. I didn't get into hive 2 as the rain came on again. I'm afraid the pictures aren't too good as it was a bit wet and I was trying to hold the frame with one hand and the camera with the other.. However if anybody can spot any signs of what is going on I would appreciate it. No sign of a queen again, but as I said - that doesn't mean anything. I shall hope Muswell Metro is right and they have gone ahead and made a new queen without me noticing.

The last three pictures are of hive 1's entrance ( dead bees ) and floor.

 

[sheena]

Hi,
I have a new queen to rehouse and a couple of questions regarding that.

First an update. Hive #1 is busy and has larvae, however I need to get long enough ( weather not helpful ) to carry out a longer inspection and see if I can see any eggs or queen.

Hive#2 has diminished number of bees and mostly empty brood frames with the odd single brood cell ( I think drone ). Therefore I assume hive #2 has lost its queen and has laying workers.

I plan to set my new queen up in one of the nucleus boxes that I got the bees in. I have a wooden box with an opening to the front to place over it and protect it from the rain. I plan to put this on top of hive #2 facing the opposite direction. Then to put into the nucleus box 3 of the ( empty ) brood frames from hive #2 without any of the hive #2 bees. Also to put in a feeder of sugar syrup 1:1 and the new queen and her few hand maidens.

Questions around this are: Do I need to empty out the odd drone cell from the brood frames before putting them into the nucleus? Should I leave the nucleus sealed up at first or leave a small entrance? If sealed up then for how long. Is it correct to have the entrance face in the opposite direction from the hive? Is there a completely different approach I should take?

My ( possibly optimistic ) hope is that once all the bees from hive #2 die off I shall move my new queen into that hive.

 

[JamesB]

Well i cant answer it all, but what i witnessed recently while working with my Dad of prehistoric exp lol was we had 2 hives, 1 was weaker than the other so we gave a liberal smoking of both hives and added a active super from the stronger to the weaker hive,

The extra smoke confused the bees and took any scent from their queen, making it easier for the weaker hive excepting the strange bee's intergrating them,

It worked now both hives are strong.
My dad just said the weaker hive needed more wings, so maybe you could do the same, rather than let your Hive 2 die off, intergrate them with the stronger hive maybe.

 

[oliver90owner]

Is there a completely different approach I should take?

Yes! Definitely! The queen you are getting must beintroduced fairly quickly to a colony - even if a small one. She will not survive for long in a large box unless you do this.

Back later.

Regards, RAB

 

[sheena]

Hi,
Assuming hive #2 has laying workers in it - I thought this meant that the hive was doomed as they would kill any queen that was introduced?

My other hive is stronger but I only got the nucleus at the end of May so they are only working on 5 frames in the super.

I could steal a frame of brood from them? My worry with that is that I accidentally take the queen as well - if there is a queen.. I have not been very good at spotting her. The weather is not very helpful here. Windy and showery so I have to act quick. It may be better tomorrow afternoon. Will my queen be okay in her cage until then? I received her yesterday and have given them a drop of water.

 

[sheena]

I just thought I would provide an update. Last week there were no larvae at all in hive#1 and I could see no eggs. I spent a lot of time looking and am pretty sure I didn't miss any larvae. Last week I started feeding them again thinking that things had gone downhill since I had stopped. This week there are larvae and they look to be in the right places - clustered in the middle of brood frames.
Is it possible for the queen have stopped laying when I stopped feeding a couple of weeks previously? ( It also coincided with a wet spell ) and started again when sugar syrup was reinstated?