My bees swarmed and I tried to catch them…

[bobba]

My bees swarmed at about lunch time. they settled on an apple tree.

I got them from the tree into a cardboard box with a small entrance hole cut in it.

I left the box under the tree for a few hours and all the bees went in. there were no more bees in the tree.

At about 6pm I moved them into a 5 frame nuc with foundation.

But the move from the box to the nuc does not seem to have gone so smoothly. The bees have mostly come out of the nuc and formed a huge beard on the front. Just before dark I tried scooping the beard into a box and pouring them back into the top of the hive. But I am not sure that has helped.

There is also a new cluster forming in the apple tree in the same place as the old one, but much smaller.

I worry the queen may either be in the tree or in the beard!

Has any one got any advice for a noob?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Anduril]

The box may have had a greater volume than the nuc. Also they may have found a space with greater volume and will abscond from the nuc tomorrow. Really depends if there were any waggle dances before placing them in the cardboard box. There will still be a smell of bees on the tree and that is why some are congregating there, the ones who were looking for a permanent residence have gone back to where they originally settled. If you have a disc on the entrance of the nuc, you could set it to queen excluder for a couple of days, but after that and you open up to full entrance, they may still abscond.

 

[bobba]

The box was bigger than the nuc.

So do you think I would have been better off putting them in a full sized hive?

 

[pargyle]

I leave the box or hive that I've poured them into in the immediate vicinity of the place where they swarmed to until after dark. If you have the queen in the box they will usually all go in. You can then move them after dark to where you want them and with a bit of luck the following morning they will orientate on the new site and stay put.

It's a judgement call about whether the swarm needs a nuc or a full hive ...

 

[Anduril]

The box was bigger than the nuc.

So do you think I would have been better off putting them in a full sized hive?

I've collected swarms in 6 frame 14x12 nucs and a standard hive and sometimes the bees have remained outside after dark. If they don't need to be moved, I find they sort themselves out after 2 days.

 

[bobba]

I just poped out with a torch.

I added a 6" nuc eke under the brood to give them more space.

I swept the beard off the hive using a paint brush and cardboard box.

Then I poured them into the top.

I will check in a hour and see how they are doing, but it seemed to work better this time. The remaining bees on the landing board were all running back in.

Some were dropped on the floor, I checked for the queen but could not see her.

The ones on the floor looked like they were starting to climb the leg of the stand. But I got chased away from the hive by 1 angry bee! It was viscous. It followed me around the garden for 10m, then into the house. I had to hover her up

So I will go and have a peek in a hour and see how they are doing.

"I leave the box or hive that I've poured them into in the immediate vicinity"

I will definitely do this next time, I mean if it ever happens again. As the second cluster formed in the tree, I could see them flying from where the box was to the tree. It seemed they settled in the tree as a second choice when they could not find the box. So if the hive was left there until night, I think I would have avoided the second cluster.

And for those who read my other thread - I have my split now - hopefully.....

 

[Antipodes]

When I capture a swarm, I put a frame of brood in their new home with them, and that seems to help keep them there.

 

[bobba]

just checked them - all back in the tree

 

[Antipodes]

Are you able to pop a frame of brood in with them (from the hive they swarmed from), to try that method?

 

[Anduril]

just checked them - all back in the tree

Are they within reach?
Can you get them back in the nuc?
If so give them a frame of brood and queen excluder and best of luck!
Can you cut the branch without disturbing them too much and place it in the nuc gently?

 

[pargyle]

just checked them - all back in the tree

Get them back into a hive .. a frame of brood might help but I've never bothered .. once they are in leave them until after dark .. they should all go into the hive if you have managed to get the queen in there. Then move them to where you want them. If you can removed the branch or at least the twigs where they had settled in the tree and seal it in a bin liner ... it will be covered in queen pheremones which is what is attracting them back to the tree.

Don't feel you've failed ... collecting swarms is sometimes a complete doddle and they look really grateful that you've provided a nice new home and sometimes .. it's a real PITA.

I had one this year that went back into the tree four times after I got them into the box .. on the final attempt I actually cut off a piece of the branch they were settle on and put it in the hive and they seemed to get the message .. by the time I removed it from the hive the following morning they had already built a bit of comb about 4" square attached to the branch.

Seemed they were quite attached to it ...

Oh, as well ... the usual advice is not to feed them for a couple of days but if you don't have drawn frames for them a few litres of 1:1 won't go amiss .. more so as it is now day 2 of swarming.

 

[bobba]

I can catch them again, but I don't know if there is any brood in my other hive. there very little last week. But I will have a look, and use it if there is.

 

[pargyle]

I can catch them again, but I don't know if there is any brood in my other hive. there very little last week. But I will have a look, and use it if there is.

Don't strip a working hive of brood if they don't have plenty in there .. it's a swarm .. they woould not normally find somewhere with a frame of brood...

If you have a spare frame with comb then that's a second best .. one of the outer frames from your existing colony perhaps ?

 

[bobba]

I looked in my other hive for brood, but there was very little. Unfortunately it was severally honey bound last week.

I took a frame that was 20% honey - 80% nectar, and literately had about 10 cells of brood, one of winch was emerging.

I have 2 x 5 frame nucs stacked. With solid floor and QE below the bottom box. for the swam.

I have frames in the top box but not the bottom.

I also put a tiny bit of lemon grass oil in this time.

I positioned the hive below swam tree. Then got them in a box and poured them in the hive and put the lid on.

About 30m later more bees had formed another mini cluster in the tree, so I got them in the box and let them walk into the hive.

So its fingers crossed again now.

I looked In the box before pouring into the hive but could not see the queen. I am assuming the fact that the second lot of bees just marched straight in is a good sign that she is in there.

There are a lot less bees in the swam then yesterday. I think a lot of the original swam bees went back into the original hive when I did the transfer yesterday.

And a huge thanks for all the help. I was starting to despair with the situation last night, but your collective advise gave me the inspiration and knowledge to have another try.

 

[pargyle]

Good luck ..hopefully, this time. they will stay put.

If they weren't your bees I would take a more philosophical approach .. sod it - let them go ! There comes a point where you can't be bothered tipping them back into your box anymore..

I think my record is six times from the same tree ... and if they hadn't stayed put that time they had out run my patience ... and it was raining, they were moving up higher every time and it was getting dark and it was July ..."not worth a fly" ...

But they are YOUR bees ... so best persevere. It does waste a lot of time though.. my wife is less than impressed with my swarm collection this year ! "instead of messing about with more bees that you don't need shouldn't you really be cutting the lawn ?" was the last one ...

Yes, of course dear, I'll probably give them away ... Nose grows !

 

[bobba]

Thanks pargyle.

Its actually been a lot of fun, although exhausting. And seeing the bees waft out of the hive and settle on the tree is something I will never forget.

I made the entire hive from scratch in a hurry yesterday - hence the shanty bin bag roof. I knocked up the second nuc this morning.

lucky my miss is very understanding, she has actually taken quite an interest in bee keeping. She said she would like to help me catch the swam, but is about 6 months preggo so had to sit this one out.

The only problem is, when I told the old man I was getting some bees. The first thing he said is "they will swarm". I told him "no, with proper swarm management the chance is very low". So now I will have to endure some "told you so" verbal beatings from the old man.

 

[pargyle]

The only problem is, when I told the old man I was getting some bees. The first thing he said is "they will swarm". I told him "no, with proper swarm management the chance is very low". So now I will have to endure some "told you so" verbal beatings from the old man.

Tell him they belonged to someone else and wern't yours, just attracted to your hives ... most beekeepers I know never lose swarms from their own bees ! Odd that, isn't it ?

 

[enrico]

Tell him they belonged to someone else and wern't yours, just attracted to your hives ... most beekeepers I know never lose swarms from their own bees ! Odd that, isn't it ?

 

[bobba]

Tell him they belonged to someone else and wern't yours, just attracted to your hives ... most beekeepers I know never lose swarms from their own bees ! Odd that, isn't it ?

That makes sense. They must have flown into my hive, then my bees must have forced them out. That is why they appeared to come out of my hive

 

[pargyle]

That makes sense. They must have flown into my hive, then my bees must have forced them out. That is why they appeared to come out of my hive

Sounds completely plausible.. were there any witnesses? I insist on witnesses getting the names of the culprits before I accept liability...