Introducing a new queen help

[beepig]

I have bought a new queen for my colony whose queen is drone laying only. The new queen arrives tomorrow so i went in today to remove the old queen who, is normally very easy to find. after three searches i could not find her. The bees are very noisy, and only on one frame are there any brood, and these are all drone. i counted a dozen capped cells. I noticed that they are building a few play cups. although not sure if that is correct. small round cups...
Anyway i digress.
Is it still ok to introduce a new queen as i cannot find the old one.
she arrives tomorrow

Thanks for your help

 

[idg]

You say you counted a dozen capped cells. Do you mean capped queen cells? If they are queen cells then I would think your queen has already gone. If this is the case Introduce your new queen in a cage and leave in the cage for a couple of days before releasing the clip that allows the workers to break her out.
If your old queen is still in the hive, I would imagine she will leave shortly after introducing the cage. The problem is, she will take half the bees with her. More experience folks may have more advice. Good luck

 

[beepig]

the capped brood were all drone, no worker brood. but there are a few playful what look like half built queen cups...

 

[thenovice]

did you try test frame? sounds more like a q- to me...

 

[Davelin]

If the old drone laying queen is still in there she may well kill your newly introduced queen and will be an expensive risk to take.

You need to be sure they are queenless; are there any eggs or young brood?

 

[Finman]

.
You may sieve the queen off with excluder.

Take a frame of emerging bees from another hive. Shake all bees off.
Put that into a box over excluder. Bees from down stairs rise to warm up the bee frame.

Then move the origonal drone layer box like you would do an AS. Bees move to original site, but drone layer will stay in the hive.

Emerging bees are needed to nurse new larvae.

.

 

[Finman]

If the old drone laying queen is still in there she may well kill your newly introduced queen ?

It surely kills, or my bet is that workers kill.

 

[beepig]

If the old drone laying queen is still in there she may well kill your newly introduced queen and will be an expensive risk to take.

You need to be sure they are queenless; are there any eggs or young brood?

no eggs but a few uncapped brood. and i mean a few tops half a dozen. I will go through it again tomorrow and see once again if i can locate the queen,,
the whole nest is very unsettled and quite angry and time is running out for the remaining workers, which are probably winter bees

 

[Finman]

no eggs but a few uncapped brood. and i mean a few tops half a dozen. I will go through it again tomorrow and see once again if i can locate the queen,,
the whole nest is very unsettled and quite angry and time is running out for the remaining workers, which are probably winter bees

Few brood. Perhaps the colony has nosema and queen is not able to lay.

If you put the new queen into the hive, it may become sick too.
I would say that workers have no value and hive has risk of nosema. At least workers are short living.

If you make a nuc over that angry hive, I wouldreplace it with new queen.

That slow queen starts to lay better, when you take a frame of emerging bees and help the small colony bigger. Reduce ventilation. 1x3 cm is enough.

 

[beepig]

Thanks for that. I also noticed that emerging drones are dying in there cells whilst emerging....

 

[Finman]

Thanks for that. I also noticed that emerging drones are dying in there cells whilst emerging....

Have you looked mites from them?

 

[beepig]

Have you looked mites from them?

After much thought maybe best plan is too remove a frame of brood, pollen and stores from my weak colony and put into a nuke along with my new queen arriving tomorrow. Then leave the drone colony to die out and the remaining weak colony to either rebuild or die out also. then destroy all frames and stores sterliise and start again.
What dya think to that idea

 

[Finman]

.
Difficult to say when I have not seen hives and I do not know what they were at autumn. Now you said that queen was not queen looking.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

After much thought maybe best plan is too remove a frame of brood, pollen and stores from my weak colony and put into a nuke along with my new queen arriving tomorrow. Then leave the drone colony to die out and the remaining weak colony to either rebuild or die out also. then destroy all frames and stores sterliise and start again.
What dya think to that idea

Your profile says three colonies - can't you make up a decently populated nuc to put the new queen in? otherwise that colony will struggle too. In all honesty I think the hive she was originally intended for is doomed - I'd have shaken them out a long time ago (and I'm not one to be hasty) so making up a fresh nuc would be a better idea - two or three brood, a frame of stores and a frame with drawn comb, plenty of bees, leave them q- for a few hours then introduce new queen in her cage with attendant bees(absolutely no point faffing around with removing them unless she and the workers are an import when you have to) put a bit of tape over the candy so the bees can't get at it and leave for a few days, then go in and remove he tape and wait fr them to get her out and laying. If there isn't much of a flow on it does help if you put a few pints of 1:1 syrup on.

 

[Chris B]

Mostly agree with JBM, but would add that if your other colonies are not strong enough to make a nuc between them, then you don't need the new queen that's coming and will probably just be throwing her away by trying to introduce her to a weak or diminishing colony - in which case sell her on quickly.

 

[jd101k2000]

Agree with JBM. The bees in that colony will be on their last legs. The drones dying while emerging suggests that there is no-one to feed them while they are emerging. So you have a colony of (probably) small drones and (definitely) expiring workers. In a week or two those workers will have died. So you will end up with a colony with a queen, and no workers to support her. (Well, by that time the new queen will be dead.)

If you shake them out, at least they can support your other colonies until they die in the field of exhaustion.

Just had my first Drone Laying Queen... the consoling fact is that it is not my fault and it is not your fault. (Unlike most tragedies that befall bee keepers.)

 

[beepig]

Your profile says three colonies - can't you make up a decently populated nuc to put the new queen in? otherwise that colony will struggle too. In all honesty I think the hive she was originally intended for is doomed - I'd have shaken them out a long time ago (and I'm not one to be hasty) so making up a fresh nuc would be a better idea - two or three brood, a frame of stores and a frame with drawn comb, plenty of bees, leave them q- for a few hours then introduce new queen in her cage with attendant bees(absolutely no point faffing around with removing them unless she and the workers are an import when you have to) put a bit of tape over the candy so the bees can't get at it and leave for a few days, then go in and remove he tape and wait fr them to get her out and laying. If there isn't much of a flow on it does help if you put a few pints of 1:1 syrup on.

Hello again. i did have three clonies. but lost one this early spring and now looks like i am about to lose another due to drone laying queen. My final colony is weak having brood on just two frames, but they are now growing again.
So with my new queen i did the only thing i could do and that is i split my already weak colony into two nucs and introduced new queen yesterday. removed cage end this morning.
Both nucs have plenty of bees and appear to have settled well. I have introduced syrup to original queen nuc as they were drawing a new frame before split and so may continue.
I shall leave them alone now for a week and then re-access.
Thanks for your help much appreciated.