Interesting afternoon

[Roola]

Had a bait hive out on my window sill, this is about 300m away from a couple of hives I have. Been watching scout bees at the hive (lots of them) for the last week or so. Got suspicious as the bees looked like they might be mine. Sure enough on inspection at the weekend I noticed one of my colonies had a number of queen cells, all had eggs in but 2 or three were larvae in a big pool or RJ so I conducted an AS... This seemed to go fine, all the flying bees happily returned to old site and the queen however... got a phone call today from neighbour to say a swarm had gone into my bait hive! Upon checking when i got home, It appears that my AS colony has swarmed BUT moved into my bait hive so on one hand its a nice little story and glad I did not lose them however i'm surprised they left a nice big national brood for a poly nuc!! Question is, is this normal for a colony to swarm even if you have carried out an AS? Is it they have gone past the point of no return and have decided to go all the same. I am stumped as to why they left!

 

[Erichalfbee]

The first ever AS I performed did exactly the same. I guess that once the process has started and swarming imminent they will go.

 

[Minxpinx]

As Winnie the Pooh said
"You never can tell with bees"
I'm going to do an A/S tomorrow too - think I'll set up a bait hive now!

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Definitely no sneaky hidden queen cell on the frame left with the artificial swarm?

 

[Roola]

Definitely no sneaky hidden queen cell on the frame left with the artificial swarm?

I am almost certain there were none, but I guess until I have a look tomorrow I won't know. Having a bit of a giggle that they ended up in my bait hive though.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Maybe they preferred the smaller, warmer, box?

 

[td4bees]

A/S

Had a bait hive out on my window sill, this is about 300m away from a couple of hives I have. Been watching scout bees at the hive (lots of them) for the last week or so. Got suspicious as the bees looked like they might be mine. Sure enough on inspection at the weekend I noticed one of my colonies had a number of queen cells, all had eggs in but 2 or three were larvae in a big pool or RJ so I conducted an AS... This seemed to go fine, all the flying bees happily returned to old site and the queen however... got a phone call today from neighbour to say a swarm had gone into my bait hive! Upon checking when i got home, It appears that my AS colony has swarmed BUT moved into my bait hive so on one hand its a nice little story and glad I did not lose them however i'm surprised they left a nice big national brood for a poly nuc!! Question is, is this normal for a colony to swarm even if you have carried out an AS? Is it they have gone past the point of no return and have decided to go all the same. I am stumped as to why they left!

when I do a/s I put qx. under brood box until she starts to lay again

 

[Roola]

yes, think i'll be doing that from now on. One interesting thing I have learnt from all this is that scout bees will definitely be out looking for a potential site long before a swarm issues. From my calculations this lot had taken notice of my bait hive the time that eggs were first laid in the QC. From talking to people who saw the swarm in transit, they only stopped once a short distance from the hive then carried straight on to the bait hive... there was no setting up camp and sending out scouts to find a new home, they had already decided and went straight to it.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I learnt a lot from this thread. Thanks, @Roola. Just to be clear, this is your eked and opened 40l nuc, right?

 

[beeno]

yes, think i'll be doing that from now on. One interesting thing I have learnt from all this is that scout bees will definitely be out looking for a potential site long before a swarm issues. From my calculations this lot had taken notice of my bait hive the time that eggs were first laid in the QC. From talking to people who saw the swarm in transit, they only stopped once a short distance from the hive then carried straight on to the bait hive... there was no setting up camp and sending out scouts to find a new home, they had already decided and went straight to it.

Lovely story Roola and good observational beekeeping!

 

[Roola]

I learnt a lot from this thread. Thanks, @Roola. Just to be clear, this is your eked and opened 40l nuc, right?

Yep, Paynes Poly which I have expanded by removing the feeder, I then cut out the feeder strut in the eke too and added that on top. I then added a frame of brood foundation between two frames of drawn out shallows ( I find they quite like the shallows as it provides an area for the queen to begin laying in but also does 2 things 1. Leaves more of a 'gulf' inside the box so bees feel there is more space, and 2. I also find they like to build their own natural comb underneath the super frames. I've successfully kept these in colonies even after rehiving, they are pretty firmly attached. Also used was some lemon grass oil purchased from a mazon for a fiver and a vita swarm lure cloth, left in packet but torn open and placed on floor near entrance. I usually sprinkle a little lemongrass oil outside the hive entrance so it blows on the wind.

This is the first swarm i've caught in a poly nuc, normally I use a solid floor with national super, then brood on top of that, crown board and roof with again, a drawn shallow and then a few frames of brood foundation. This seems to work quite well and I caught 5 swarms this way last year. Hope this helps.

 

[Swinton apiaries]

Yep, Paynes Poly which I have expanded by removing the feeder, I then cut out the feeder strut in the eke too and added that on top. I then added a frame of brood foundation between two frames of drawn out shallows ( I find they quite like the shallows as it provides an area for the queen to begin laying in but also does 2 things 1. Leaves more of a 'gulf' inside the box so bees feel there is more space, and 2. I also find they like to build their own natural comb underneath the super frames. I've successfully kept these in colonies even after rehiving, they are pretty firmly attached. Also used was some lemon grass oil purchased from a mazon for a fiver and a vita swarm lure cloth, left in packet but torn open and placed on floor near entrance. I usually sprinkle a little lemongrass oil outside the hive entrance so it blows on the wind.

This is the first swarm i've caught in a poly nuc, normally I use a solid floor with national super, then brood on top of that, crown board and roof with again, a drawn shallow and then a few frames of brood foundation. This seems to work quite well and I caught 5 swarms this way last year. Hope this helps.

How often do you renew the lemon grass oil

 

[Roola]

How often do you renew the lemon grass oil

I am quite liberal with the oil Every few days outside, every few weeks on top of the frames inside, don't get it on the poly itself as it melts it.

I also forgot to say, you MUST close off the mesh floor, they don't like it. I just use Duct Tape and tape over the top of it. One other little tip I would give is as you are only using 3 frames, use some duct tape to tape these three together and then another piece of tape to tape them to the box. It just means when you come to take the box down or move them, you wont have frames sliding around and killing bees.

This is the lemongrass oil I douse the area with and it seems rather 'popular'

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Absolute-Aromas-Lemongrass-Essential-Oil/dp/B0013G1LBC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429094218&sr=8-1&keywords=lemongrass+oil+absolute"]Absolute Aromas Lemongrass Essential Oil: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care[/ame]

 

[sharonh]

I am quite liberal with the oil Every few days outside, every few weeks on top of the frames inside, don't get it on the poly itself as it melts it.





I also forgot to say, you MUST close off the mesh floor, they don't like it. I just use Duct Tape and tape over the top of it. One other little tip I would give is as you are only using 3 frames, use some duct tape to tape these three together and then another piece of tape to tape them to the box. It just means when you come to take the box down or move them, you wont have frames sliding around and killing bees.





This is the lemongrass oil I douse the area with and it seems rather 'popular'





Absolute Aromas Lemongrass Essential Oil: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

Hi Roola,

I'm trying to get some bait hives ready at the moment. You said you put it on the windowsill. Was it a upstairs or downstairs sill. My house is a bungalow so wondered would it work on a lower window?

 

[Obee1]

Hi roola. Would a 14 x 12 brood box with solid floor and roof be the right size? How many frames would you put in? Obee

 

[Roola]

Hi Roola,

I'm trying to get some bait hives ready at the moment. You said you put it on the windowsill. Was it a upstairs or downstairs sill. My house is a bungalow so wondered would it work on a lower window?

I put it on the window sill to gain some extra height so I would say in your case that a shed roof or garage roof would be just as good... It has been argued that placing at 2m above ground level makes them more attractive but then I believe Roger Patterson has said he doesn't think it matters.

My main successes have been on top of sheds or flat roofs though so take from that what you will. I think more important is the size of the box, drawn comb and smell! Good luck! Its quite exciting, like fishing for swarms!

 

[sharonh]

I put it on the window sill to gain some extra height so I would say in your case that a shed roof or garage roof would be just as good... It has been argued that placing at 2m above ground level makes them more attractive but then I believe Roger Patterson has said he doesn't think it matters.





My main successes have been on top of sheds or flat roofs though so take from that what you will. I think more important is the size of the box, drawn comb and smell! Good luck! Its quite exciting, like fishing for swarms!

Ah thank you for that ill give the shed roof a try so. Thank you for the hints & tips also.

 

[Roola]

Hi roola. Would a 14 x 12 brood box with solid floor and roof be the right size? How many frames would you put in? Obee

I'd say yes, good size... Make sure you have the entrance reducer down to about an inch or 2, they don't tend to like larger entrances as more to defend. When you see scout bees 'inspecting' a hive, you'll often see them wandering around the entrance, in and out getting an idea of size.

In terms of frames, I don't tend to fill the box until after I have caught a swarm, they seem to like an 'empty' box... I put in the frames I do in the hope they settle and start to draw those and don't build wild comb from the roof which can be a complete pain to sort out! I find if you put maybe a frame of drawn comb in, shallow or deep, then a couple of frames either side of foundation for them to settle on they generally tend to cluster there as the queen can start laying. I also place the frames the cold way and push them to the far end of the box and tape them together in place. I in no way am an expert, i've just been quite successful catching them so happy to share what i've found out

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi Roola,

I'm trying to get some bait hives ready at the moment. You said you put it on the windowsill. Was it a upstairs or downstairs sill. My house is a bungalow so wondered would it work on a lower window?

I put my bait hive on top of an old piggery roof which is about 8 feet high. It works but I also had repeated incoming swarms in a hedge at about 3 feet above the ground.
Conclusion - it doesn’t seem to be critical

 

[Roola]

I put my bait hive on top of an old piggery roof which is about 8 feet high. It works but I also had repeated incoming swarms in a hedge at about 3 feet above the ground.
Conclusion - it doesn’t seem to be critical

I'd probably agree with you, i'd say it plays on the normal 'flying height' of bees is all, but then they fly down for forage so why not to inspect a possible nest site.