How much syrup is 'enough'

[CLB]

We had a shock at the weekend when we found that our two very strong colonies had eaten almost 2 supers each of their honey (lucky we managed to have a taste from 1 frame). We're in Hertfordshire, where there are plenty of garden flowers around and the bees had been flying everyday bringing back lots of pollen. They now have no winter stores, so since Saturday we've been feeding thick syrup (5kg sugar to 3litres water, have ordered thymol to add to future batches). Last night we filled the rapid feeders and this morning it had all gone on one colony, but half taken on the other. Both hives are also full of brood, so I guess they'll be hungrier still when it hatches. We have removed the queen excluders and left the supers in place. Does this bee behaviour sound 'normal' please?

 

[hemo]

A gallon/8 pints of strong syrup = approx. 10lbs of stores, the bees will need 30-40lbs of winter stores. Too soon yet to be finally totting up total stores, I wait until early Oct before doing any real additional feeding as the ivy can be good and Sept can still bring good stores.
How ever if a colony looks short they will be supplemented on a case by case basis.

Given room and space of an empty super, yes they will gleefully whip it down in no time and store it.

 

[Swarm]

I would be surprised to find my bees had devoured two supers, what timescale are we talking?

 

[CLB]

The bees must have eaten the honey in the last two weeks - we were trying to be less intrusive and be more restrained in our inspections, thinking the bees know best. The only honey we took was one frame from the less prolific colony. The reason I'm particularly anxious is that another member of our local BKA last week lost a colony to starvation last week.

 

[drdrday]

Just goes to show how much variation there is in locations. My bees are still finding plenty of forage and a couple of hives still have supers on that they're filling. As things stand I think it will be at least a couple of weeks before I do any feeding, although from brief checks last week I don't think they'll need much, if any.

 

[CLB]

Just goes to show how much variation there is in locations. My bees are still finding plenty of forage and a couple of hives still have supers on that they're filling. As things stand I think it will be at least a couple of weeks before I do any feeding, although from brief checks last week I don't think they'll need much, if any.

We thought ours were happy, bringing in pollen and we assumed nectar. We had a lot of capped honey in the supers, we even added another super for one night only, as they’d been so busy & we thought they may need more space. We’re pretty sure they’re not being robbed, having reduced the entrances and not seeing anything unusual in their behaviour.

 

[Bakerbee]

I have fondant on my hives atm after one hive went through its stores, Spain a strong hive with lots of brood, its been a strange year weather wise so I'm being extra vigilant just in case.

Not being pedantic but so you know, Bees emerge not hatch

 

[Bakerbee]

Again not spain , my thumbs

 

[pargyle]

The bees must have eaten the honey in the last two weeks - we were trying to be less intrusive and be more restrained in our inspections, thinking the bees know best. The only honey we took was one frame from the less prolific colony. The reason I'm particularly anxious is that another member of our local BKA last week lost a colony to starvation last week.

That's a lot of honey to have consumed in two weeks ... the weather has been good flying weather and you say they have been foraging - it doesn't stack up - they would have also had stores in an arc across the top of the brood box so with two capped supers there would have been between 30 and 40 lbs of honey in there in total - to have eaten that in two weeks in good foraging weather ,,, ? Unlikely ....

You can experience silent robbing .... not every colony is visually defensive and a colony being robbed can easily lose all their honey in a matter of hours. Have you looked at the super frames closely - are the cells chewed and ragged around the edges, not cleanly uncapped ? Often a good sign that they have been robbed out.

 

[CLB]

Thank you for your insight Bakerbee, it's very reassuring to hear we're not the only ones to find bees without winter stores.

Not being pedantic but so you know, Bees emerge not hatch

Our bees will be emerging not hatching from now on.

 

[CLB]

That's a lot of honey to have consumed in two weeks ... the weather has been good flying weather and you say they have been foraging - it doesn't stack up - they would have also had stores in an arc across the top of the brood box so with two capped supers there would have been between 30 and 40 lbs of honey in there in total - to have eaten that in two weeks in good foraging weather ,,, ? Unlikely ....

You can experience silent robbing .... not every colony is visually defensive and a colony being robbed can easily lose all their honey in a matter of hours. Have you looked at the super frames closely - are they chewed and ragged around the edges, not cleanly uncapped ? Often a good sign that they have been robbed out.

Thank you very much for your reply and posting the photo of robbed comb. We went into the hives last night to put on ApiVar and didn't notice the chewed appearance, but will have a closer look next time. The bees have started storing the syrup feed and hopefully whatever they're bringing in now as they are so busy. We also noticed some with the 'ghost bee' appearance, where they have loads of white pollen on their thoraxes.

Is it OK to feed as much as they will take, or should we just be feeding some then resting off for a few days? Following a similar thread on here, it sounds like over feeding can be almost as bad as underfeeding. Very difficult line to establish for a beginner.

 

[Curly green finger's]

That's a lot of honey to have consumed in two weeks ... the weather has been good flying weather and you say they have been foraging - it doesn't stack up - they would have also had stores in an arc across the top of the brood box so with two capped supers there would have been between 30 and 40 lbs of honey in there in total - to have eaten that in two weeks in good foraging weather ,,, ? Unlikely ....

You can experience silent robbing .... not every colony is visually defensive and a colony being robbed can easily lose all their honey in a matter of hours. Have you looked at the super frames closely - are they chewed and ragged around the edges, not cleanly uncapped ? Often a good sign that they have been robbed out.

classic robbing picture of a frame my thoughts were the same Philip.

 

[Boston Bees]

Is it OK to feed as much as they will take, or should we just be feeding some then resting off for a few days? Following a similar thread on here, it sounds like over feeding can be almost as bad as underfeeding. Very difficult line to establish for a beginner.

This is why I am a big fan of fondant for beginners rather than syrup. The bees can't physically take it down as fast as syrup, and it doesn't seem to trigger the same "feeding frenzy" as syrup can (though of course they will still eat it all given time.). As such there is much less risk of the brood nest getting packed with syrup just when you want it packed with winter bee larvae.

There's also much less risk of triggering a wasp/bee robbing event, which beginners are also more at risk of suffering.

But to answer your question, if you feed syrup, yes, it's too early to feed completely ad-lib syrup. 2 or 3 litres every few days will keep them ticking over.

 

[pargyle]

Thank you very much for your reply and posting the photo of robbed comb. We went into the hives last night to put on ApiVar and didn't notice the chewed appearance, but will have a closer look next time. The bees have started storing the syrup feed and hopefully whatever they're bringing in now as they are so busy. We also noticed some with the 'ghost bee' appearance, where they have loads of white pollen on their thoraxes.

Is it OK to feed as much as they will take, or should we just be feeding some then resting off for a few days? Following a similar thread on here, it sounds like over feeding can be almost as bad as underfeeding. Very difficult line to establish for a beginner.

Bees are opportunists .. if you have a feeder on there if they have room they will store it ... it's a balancing act at this time of the year as there is still forage about and they need brood space to raise the winter bees ... mine are still brooding like mad ... what size brood boxes do you have ... have you still got the supers on the hives ?

I tend to try and feed a bit at a time until after the Ivy kicks in - they can really stock up the brood box with the Ivy crop and if you have already stuffed them with syrup prior to that they won't get the advantage of storing ivy honey (assuming you have ivy within flying distance).

I know this is not immensely helpful - there are no hard and fast rules and for a new beekeeper it is difficult ... a quick look to see how much space they have doesn't hurt - I don't do full inspections at this time of the year as it's counter productive to their preps for winter - I take out the dummy board, slide the frames along to where the brood should be in the middle and lift a couple of frames half out for a quick look ... the weather down here in the South still has temperatures up in the high teens so you can't be that far off where you are.

 

[CLB]

Thank you everyone for offering advice based on your own experiences. We are so grateful to learn how others approach the same situation. It really is very informative, confidence building and very much appreciated.