Hives for bees not honey for me!

[mbc]

Then waste not, but value and honour every single drop, each a lifetimes work.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I think the 'one box' size argument has been had on here a few times if you look in the archives .. there are pros and cons but I have to say that the convenience of honey supers is a very major plus for the 'conventional' route.

The same can be said about brood and a half, it can be a pain to inspect - and bees do need to be inspected so the beekeeper can check for disease and, hopefully, be able to prevent swarming. Not many beekeepers have the luxury of having an apiary surrounded only by their own land, and swarms can annoy neighbours.

It's good that your initial reaction is that honey extraction is not your number one priority - ...

As for honey extracting get on it! It's great fun. If you do it earlier enough in season allows time for bees to still top up their winter stores.

True, on both points, and it isn't always messy - just make sure the gate valve is closed!

... waste not, but value and honour every single drop, each a lifetimes work.

 

[bjosephd]

Thanks for being cool everybody...

Quite often it seems in online forums things tend to get nasty and argumentative by the 4th page! So thanks for all being chilled and mellow.

It's been a helpful discussion for me, so I'm really grateful to you all.

Hmm... which controversial topic shall I start up next?

 

[bjosephd]

And who's going to the National Honey show at the end of the month?

I was hoping to go... worth the adventure?

B

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Quite often it seems in online forums things tend to get nasty and argumentative by the 4th page! .

Don't worry, we won't dissappoint - it's just that you're in the kindergarten here and we've promised to be (comparatively) nice

 

[Samurailord]

I just wanted to concentrate on one thing at a time and be more of a bee 'keeper' rather than honey farmer.

Hi bjosephd and welcome to the forum.

I started off just like you, doing loads of reading and researching before taking the plunge.

I caught a wild swarm in June this year and hived them in a National BB, added a super without a QE around August when they seemed to be running out of room.

Once the super was nicely filling with stores I replaced the QE, and then hurridlly removed it a week later when I discovered that I had trapped HM upstairs!

Then I managed to leave a nice little gap at the back of the hive thay allowed raiders in who promptly stole loads of stores.

With this being my first season I decided that I wasn't going to take any honey from the colony this year - unless they went absolutely mental and filled a couple of supers - and after all the problems they had had from my mis-management I decided to simply move the mostly-filled super to under the BB for winter when I treated for varoa.

They probably have more than enough stores to get them through the winter, and yes, I probably could have taken a few frames for myself but I thought it was more important for the colony to make it through to Spring.

Next year, though........

Andy

 

[bjosephd]

Haha, amazing! What did your Q do in her tiny upstairs chamber? Fill it with brood?

It's one way to stop her swarming I guess! And trap a load of drones too?

She was far easier to find on super frames though I bet (once you realised that's where she was hanging out).

Did the girls just fill the BB with honey then?

Maybe you should convert to a top entrance hive!

 

[tonel]

Hiya,

Just a thought but have you considered top bar hives? Have to admit I don't know too much about them myself but from what I've read if you're thinking of going for a more 'natural' method (prefer to keep the colony in one box, going foundationless etc) maybe a TBH might be the way to go. As I said, just a thought

 

[Samurailord]

Haha, amazing! What did your Q do in her tiny upstairs chamber? Fill it with brood?

Yes, it was a bit of a shock to open up and see loads of sealed brood and even a few play cups too

She was far easier to find on super frames though I bet (once you realised that's where she was hanging out).

Amazingly no, we still couldn't find her - since then some 'old hands' have suggested that she may be a 'wall hugger' - we have only ever seen her twice in the past 16 weeks.

Did the girls just fill the BB with honey then?

Yes, there were plenty of stores in both BB and super so we just took the QE off again and left them to it

Maybe you should convert to a top entrance hive?

Don't start - we are having enough trouble dealing with a single hive in 'normal' configuration without trying anything else new!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hiya,

Just a thought but have you considered top bar hives? Have to admit I don't know too much about them myself but from what I've read if you're thinking of going for a more 'natural' method (prefer to keep the colony in one box, going foundationless etc) maybe a TBH might be the way to go. As I said, just a thought

Hmm Kenyan/African top bar hives are called such for a reason they're meant for Africa!

 

[bjosephd]

Hey tonel,

I've looked a little into TBHs, but think the standard national boxes allow me more flexibility and support, I can also move onto honey collection later if I choose, but I will read up on them a bit more... and it may well be somewhat cheaper to set up.

The only thing is when it comes to nucs and stuff from friends and locals since TBHs have freaky dimensions!

I hope to try and be reasonably foundationless in nationals anyway... but I think that it'll be a slow slide towards foundationless as I slowly swap in empty/started frames when circumstances allow.

 

[tonel]

Hey tonel,

I've looked a little into TBHs, but think the standard national boxes allow me more flexibility and support, I can also move onto honey collection later if I choose, but I will read up on them a bit more... and it may well be somewhat cheaper to set up.

The only thing is when it comes to nucs and stuff from friends and locals since TBHs have freaky dimensions!

I hope to try and be reasonably foundationless in nationals anyway... but I think that it'll be a slow slide towards foundationless as I slowly swap in empty/started frames when circumstances allow.

No worries..as I said, was just a thought when I read your first post! I see what you mean about more flexibility with National boxes. I'm pretty new to it all so am not exactly a source of good advice I started with Nationals, it does make life easier when using standard equipment so to speak - although am tempted to maybe try one hive with a Commercial or 14x12 BB next year (I run single brood, pretty much everyone else I know seems to use brood and a half which I'm not so keen on).

 

[itma]

... I was wondering if this approach might be a better way to purely 'keep' bees without harvesting honey and allowing them to pollinate the orchard as a bonus. What is the 'conventional' method for doing this? OR is it EXACTLY the same?
…

As I think others have made abundantly clear, healthy bees in a location with good forage will prosper. They will produce a surplus.

Now, if you don't want to take (all) the 'profit' as honey, two alternatives are taking the surplus as additional bees (for sale as packages) or additional queens (to beekeepers needing) or additional bees+queen colonies (selling either full or nucleus colonies). Another would be to maximise the wax production (a pound of wax 'costs' at least 8 pounds of honey). /// Some even try and maximise production of Royal Jelly - or even propolis.

There are different ways in which colonies can be 'managed', but the thing is to get to grips with the basics before specialising.

And the first 'basic' is that a healthy colony will not 'mark time' - only an unhealthy colony, or one in a bad location, will fail to produce either a surplus of honey or bees - a healthy colony in a good location would likely do both!

 

[bjosephd]

Hey itma,

So I think the main thing I have learned here is what you've just stated rather concisely. i.e. "A healthy colony will not mark time".

Bees are designed to store as much honey as possible and swarm as much as possible... that's the trick to their survival. Any organism's grand plan is obviously to reproduce and up their population... grow, divide, and concur! Through evolution of course they have learned the best way to perpetuate the population at large... their raison d'être - to create a gazillion bees.

So if all one wants to do is 'keep' bees, and all is happy and healthy in the hive and good forage... to avoid losing swarm after swarm I'll be artificial swarming/splitting all the time and end up with 50 hives before long!

So the tip of the day is "Happy and healthy means swarms and surplus honey" (deal with it)

B

p.s. when you say wax 'costs' more than honey... I guess you mean cost to the bees... so if forage and production is good, you can choose to direct more of their surplus to building comb rather than simply filling it? This sounds like a good argument for going foundationless.

 

[bjosephd]

"...to reproduce and up their population... grow, divide, and concur! Through evolution of course they..."

Why won't it let me edit any more?

I typed 'concur' instead of conquer... erghh... horrible to see! Don't judge me!

To grow, divide, and all agree with each other?!?!

 

[enrico]

It wil only let you edit for a few minutes after your post to stop you changing the sense after you have had answers!
E

 

[mbc]

I typed 'concur' instead of conquer... erghh... horrible to see! Don't judge me!

To grow, divide, and all agree with each other?!?!

Smelling pisstakes and autocorrect clangers are all part of the fun

 

[madasafish]

On my TBHs (I have 7), I take a little honey in autumn, but harvest what is left in spring. Normally not a lot (TBHs are not very efficient),, but this year has been exceptional.

I have one 3' TBH full of honey- must be 100lbs at least. I intedn to harvest most of it late March/early April - I have already taken 20 lbs from it this year already - all replaced.

But this has been the best year for me in the 5 seasons of beekeeping.

 

[whoosling]

bjosephd

Whatever, however just enjoy the bees and try not to make as many cock ups as me, good luck .

 

[Ely]

Many of us beekeepers have healthy productive bees that pollinate the environment AND extract honey. This is beekeeping in general. You will run into far more problems not taking it (I'm not saying you must take all of it). Before people start beekeeping, they often don't realise just how much management they need (NEED - if you do not want to be populating the neighbouring chimney stacks with swarms). I admit, before I started beekeeping I thought it was just a box of bees that you helped yourself to a frame of honey to every now and again.

Some have a hands off approach but this isn't advisable if you have neighbours. ( I wouldn't have advise that anyway. They may as well keep bumble boxes).