Hive positioning Poll

[Dishmop]

The two hives I have at home back onto the wall with a gap of about 12".
On first inspection this year I did notice that remaining stores were at the front of the hive, and that this idicated that the bees had spent winter at the back of the hive because it might have been warmer.

 

[Norfolk]

The two hives I have at home back onto the wall with a gap of about 12".
On first inspection this year I did notice that remaining stores were at the front of the hive, and that this indicated that the bees had spent winter at the back of the hive because it might have been warmer.

What you say makes perfect sense to me, I think the bee's will make their own decision about where they cluster.

What way round do you have your frames I wonder ?

I noticed you didn't offer a vote ?

 

[Norfolk]

Hi Guys n Gals

I have thought about this hive positioning thing for a bit and had a blinding idea.
I placed a thermometer in both spots that I was considering and discovered that it was almost a couple of degrees warmer under the lean-to than it was in the south facing spot that got the mid morning lack of sun. Admittedly this is winter but I am going to opt for the sheltered spot with less sun.
Only time will tell I guess.

 

[Stevie Day]

Voted sunny, as hives are south facing. Though they do have quite a bit of shelter. North side wooded copse - mainly conifer. East hedge & neighbouring garden has many trees. So good protection from winter winds. West a smaller hedge & a large oak - which takes a bit too much sun.

The frames are positioned the cold way & have found that the bees put stores more towards west of centre of the hive.

 

[Silex]

I have two hives at home in a sunny spot and two a couple of villages away in a sheltered spot. Those in the sheltered position are doing much better than those at home.

 

[user 6228]

both is best... which is what we have

 

[oliver90owner]

Derekm is correct.

Flawed poll as usual. Sunny is not the opposite of shelter.

Perhaps some have never heard of a sunny sheltered spot?

Insolation refers to radiated energy addition, sheltered refers to losses, or not, by conduction principally.

 

[bontbee]

Not true to say it's a flawed poll - the original question was if you had to choose

How many people have the opportunity of a perfect site?

I thought it was a good question - I was stuck when it came to choosing. In the end I went for sunny, but with reservations. Too much sun, eg full sun on hives, in a sheltered south facing position, within a foot or two of a stone/brick wall isn't always good. I have pulled combs on the point of collapse from hives in this sort of location. Nice for winter warmth, but can be too much of a good thing.

As long as hives are sound, they don't need protection from rain, but wind is much more of an issue. In one of my apiaries, I keep the varroa trays in during the winter as my hive stands are tall and open, and it's a coastal location. Fortunately, they are tucked in with hedges on three sides, in the sun; each hive gets some shade around midday. I can drive to within 4m and the landowner is very vigilante and lets me know of any problems. There is good forage, and the weather is consistently drier than at my other apiaries.

Reading that, it looks as if I might have the perfect site.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not true to say it's a flawed poll - the original question was-if you had to choose

Well, the actual poll asks for your preference between sun or shelter. That is not a good start to a poll if it is not actually asking that. No mention of ignoring the most sensible result; no mention that this would supply a tiny minority result, where lots of people would take the result as meaningful for every situation - durr!

The obvious might be a sunny spot and add shelter as necessary. Lets face it, atop a hill could be sunny, but the answer would then be different for the same individual (one hopes). It also might depend on the time of the year? Poll was started in almost November; I wonder how many thought of winter quarters rather than foraging positions? Post did not even have a link to the previous discussion! I still maintain thaf poll's was about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Question should have arisen as a simple separate thread for opinions on that one specific case, not as a poll.

 

[bontbee]

You're right, my mistake. I read the explanation, not the poll title.

 

[user 6228]

Derekm is correct.

Flawed poll as usual. Sunny is not the opposite of shelter.

Perhaps some have never heard of a sunny sheltered spot?

Insolation refers to radiated energy addition, sheltered refers to losses, or not, by conduction principally.

Rab,
Cant miss this one

Shelter prevents losses by forced convection or forced evapouration (in draught just out of the shower syndrome, also found on top of welsh mountains where I'm reliably told, it rains and the wind blows) and at night time, radiation. Althought you could argue that convection is conduction from surface that has a moving fluid in contact with it.

 

[REDWOOD]

Can you explain to me again what's happening in the Welsh mountains besides wind and rain which is almost always

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

just out of the shower syndrome, also found on top of welsh mountains

Hmmm can't say I've stood naked on top of a mountain whether wet just out of a shower or otherwise 9well, not for a good few years anyway!)

 

[user 6228]

Hmmm can't say I've stood naked on top of a mountain whether wet just out of a shower or otherwise 9well, not for a good few years anyway!)

A big cause of death on the welsh mountains is hypothermia caused by the outstanding amount of rain and gales. While not very cold in temperature or high they are as deadly as much higher mountains. The high water and air flow over the victim , plus the forced evaporation , when the humidity is not 100% causes such a high heat loss it can kill. People have died on ridges in Snowdonia only a few metres from sheltered, even comfortable positions out of the wind.

So unless your bees are in a 34C all the year round position (unlikely in Wales) shelter is vital to reducing heat loss, keep the wind, the rain and the night sky off the hive surfaces. Bees are stimulated by high light levels, so sunny and sheltered is best.

Derek (4yrs living in Gwynedd (along time ago) (but only 400ft up)

 

[REDWOOD]

Yep you can freeze to death up there in summer

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yep you can freeze to death up there in summer

especially if you have no clothes on

 

[oliver90owner]

Cant miss this one

Unless there is a gaping hole (or two) at the top of the hive, most heat loss from a hive has to be by conduction from the interior to the exterior initially. How it then gets 'lost' from the outside surface could be by radiation or convection or any combination of conduction/convection within a liquid, but not by conduction only, through the surrounding air. Latent heat of evaporation will be less likely as an energy dispersal vector if there is good shelter from winds and precipitation.

As a discussion for the original postee, all the above is largely irrelevant with a screen name such as that.

Oh, and I have even forgotten whether the hives in question were timber or poly, but as I said, a waste of good discussion time, let alone o pol.

 

[lilybetbee]

Mine are in a sunny sheltered position.

 

[wessexmario]

I chose sheltered... the reason being in summer there's probably not much in it either way, but in winter when there isn't so much sun, cold and damp is the biggest risk for the bees, so shelter is preferable to being exposed.

the poll is almost asking "Is it better to get more heat to start with so later heat losses aren't so serious? [sunny], or to get less heat to start with, but then loose less? [sheltered] (due to the smaller temperature differences, rate of loss will be lower).

I'm also thinking that the sheltered option would give slower fluctuations in temperature on the hive summer and winter which may be easier on the bees.

 

[Karol]

Prevailing wind direction will also have an impact with respect to the nature of any subsequent wasp challenge that the apiary may experience. Stick a weaker colony at the downwind end of a longitudinally arranged apiary and it will take the full brunt for the whole apiary.