Historic creosote and effects on cedar

[Rory Fields]

My cousin used to farm somewhat, and has kindly given me some old National boxes, some cedar and some pine and all creosoted. I know it's banned for us joe public now, but wondered if when dry as it is, it would or could pose any harm to either the bees, their honey, or I've read cedar actually degrades more rapidly when creosoted - anyone else read this or just scorch em/acetic for disease and press em into service as per? Particularly intrigued by the notion that creosote could somehow actually accelerate the demise of WRC-made hives. Not otherwise inclined to treat the cedar with linseed or any other preservative- too costly and time-consuming for a start. Cheers!

 

[Sutty]

It sounds  really unlikely to accelerate decomposition. It was banned for amateur use due to concerns re carcinogenicity but still available for "professional" use. Maybe avoid it around the hive entrance, so bees don't walk all over it (though once really dry which takes ages i wouldn't worry), otherwise just use them.
Incidentally really good for chicken coops as it kills redmite - "just saying"

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

wondered if when dry as it is, it would or could pose any harm to either the bees, their honey,

worked with cresosoted Langstroths out in Africa, bees have no issues with them, swarms move into them with no fuss, in fact the main beekeeping suppliers in South Africa sell their Langstroths with a choice of plain wood or cresosote dipped.

 

[rolande]

My cousin used to farm somewhat, and has kindly given me some old National boxes, some cedar and some pine and all creosoted. I know it's banned for us joe public now, but wondered if when dry as it is, it would or could pose any harm to either the bees, their honey, or I've read cedar actually degrades more rapidly when creosoted - anyone else read this or just scorch em/acetic for disease and press em into service as per? Particularly intrigued by the notion that creosote could somehow actually accelerate the demise of WRC-made hives. Not otherwise inclined to treat the cedar with linseed or any other preservative- too costly and time-consuming for a start. Cheers!

We have a lot of old boxes that were creosoted many years ago, the timber is still fine and in fact we can only tell which ones were treated if there's ever a need to cut into one (to repair damage) then the creosote can be smelled for sure.

Going forwards, as things stand if my memory is correct, beehive treatment is not on the current list of permitted uses for the product.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Not otherwise inclined to treat the cedar with linseed

No, I agree, that's a waste of time as the oil goes mouldy and the box looks grey and miserable.

One year in Norfolk I went into a rural yard to buy local honey and there in the Spring sunshine were laid out a hundred or so boxes, just creosoted that day. The smell was lovely, but while I was waiting for change I peered into the boxes and saw that they'd creosoted the insides of the boxes as well.

 

[Colinkemp]

We have a lot of old boxes that were creosoted many years ago, the timber is still fine and in fact we can only tell which ones were treated if there's ever a need to cut into one (to repair damage) then the creosote can be smelled for sure.

Going forwards, as things stand if my memory is correct, beehive treatment is not on the current list of permitted uses for the product.

Could possibly act as a disincentive for woodpeckers?

 

[rolande]

Could possibly act as a disincentive for woodpeckers?

Thankfully not had any trouble with them for years, but it has certainly been suggested in the past that splashing a bit of the stuff around hand holds and the like would act as a deterrent, think it was Oliver field in 'honey by the ton' who used the phrase "make their eyes water".

 

[Rory Fields]

Thankfully not had any trouble with them for years, but it has certainly been suggested in the past that splashing a bit of the stuff around hand holds and the like would act as a deterrent, think it was Oliver field in 'honey by the ton' who used the phrase "make their eyes water".

It's a book I've often fancied, not because he's my near namesake and I've never encountered a fellow Fields, but it always seem to only be available used fir £30 - is it worth the investment? Do love books about honey farming and practical beekeeping. Manley and Donohoe and Horton's recent book are excellent, but always after more - the Rawson book was middling

 

[rolande]

It's a book I've often fancied, not because he's my near namesake and I've never encountered a fellow Fields, but it always seem to only be available used fir £30 - is it worth the investment? Do love books about honey farming and practical beekeeping. Manley and Donohoe and Horton's recent book are excellent, but always after more - the Rawson book was middling

Firstly, the Rawson book suffered, in my opinion, from a lack of editing, it was published when he was in his early eighties. I'm confident, having spoken to him, bought colonies and equipment from him and having read his interesting letters that he could have provided a much better book. An opportunity missed in my opinion.

I'm not sure that I could ever justify £30 for the Field book, mine cost £2 many years ago but it is an enjoyable read. I'd say that yes you probably would enjoy it but second hand price might be better fixed in the £10/£12 range. Others will disagree of course.

My all time favourite book related to bee farming (purely biographical rather than practical) is Harry Whitcomb's 'bees are my business'.

Edit: not practical as such but Field's 'Honey Days' is also a pleasant read.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it always seem to only be available used fir £30

you'll be lucky - in most places a first edition is over a £100.00.
I caught a bargain a few years ago, managed to get one for twenty quid, and when I opened it it was also signed!

 

[rolande]

you'll be lucky - in most places a first edition is over a £100.00.
I caught a bargain a few years ago, managed to get one for twenty quid, and when I opened it it was also signed!

Wow (not a word I'm often driven to say, much less write). I wouldn't ever have guessed that it was being put into that kind of price bracket.

 

[Rory Fields]

Firstly, the Rawson book suffered, in my opinion, from a lack of editing, it was published when he was in his early eighties. I'm confident, having spoken to him, bought colonies and equipment from him and having read his interesting letters that he could have provided a much better book. An opportunity missed in my opinion.

I'm not sure that I could ever justify £30 for the Field book, mine cost £2 many years ago but it is an enjoyable read. I'd say that yes you probably would enjoy it but second hand price might be better fixed in the £10/£12 range. Others will disagree of course.

My all time favourite book related to bee farming (purely biographical rather than practical) is Harry Whitcomb's 'bees are my business'.

Edit: not practical as such but Field's 'Honey Days' is also a pleasant read.

Entirely agree on the Rawson editing - think someone on here said likewise last year - v odd little tangential vendettas indulged and the poetry.... ill-advised. I'm excited to buy this Whitcomb sounds a great read - have v much enjoyed Willie Robson's Reglections On Beekeeping etc which is more a countryside history. Eager to find some of Colin Weightman's work too concerning beekeeping in Northumberland. Wish Mike Palmer, Murray et Al would write a book!

 

[rolande]

Willie Robson's Reglections On Beekeeping etc which is more a countryside history. Eager to find some of Colin Weightman's work too concerning beekeeping in Northumberland.

I liked the Robson book too but haven't seen a copy of his more recent one yet.

If you're referring to Colin Weightman's 'Border Bees' (rather than general local articles and the like) I'd suggest getting the northern bee book reprint as it contains some extra material that's not in the original hardback but I can't remember specifics as it's packed away out of easy reach.

 

[Rory Fields]

I liked the Robson book too but haven't seen a copy of his more recent one yet.

If you're referring to Colin Weightman's 'Border Bees' (rather than general local articles and the like) I'd suggest getting the northern bee book reprint as it contains some extra material that's not in the original hardback but I can't remember specifics as it's packed away out of easy reach.

I am, he's something of a local legend here and I've meant to ask to borrow it from the association library but have been to shy. Books are my main outgoings alongside bees so perhaps I'll buy Border Bees with some of my honey sales Any other beekeeping books you'd recommend that aren't just rehashes of Ted Hooper etc? I'm obsessed, like lots of us are. Thanks, Ror

 

[rolande]

Any other beekeeping books you'd recommend that aren't just rehashes of Ted Hooper etc? I'm obsessed, like lots of us are. Thanks, Ror

Dozens! I now tend to buy bee books on specialist subjects as I become interested and ones of a biographical nature.

One which may interest you is 'a man and his bees, the story of Alec Gale' it's a slim booklet of 32 pages - took a lot of patient waiting before I found a copy at a sensible price.

Another, 'Alexander's writing on practical bee culture', a compilation of EW Alexander's writings put together after his death by A.I Root. Alexander ran something like 700 colonies in one apiary if I remember right.

Finally, a non bee book but I was put onto it by Kirk Webster's writings in the American bee magazines. George Henderson's 'The Farming Ladder'. An interesting account of the building of a small farm in the Cotswolds during the period of the first world war till publication in the mid 1940s by two two brothers who weren't afraid of hard work but also had a natural talent for business -during WWII their farm was held up as an example of productivity. Of course times changed post war but what they did now holds a renewed resonance as many small agricultural businesses look at ways to improve income and life. Written in the same geographic area at the same time that Manley wrote Honey Farming.