Gurus, when should I expect VISIBLE EQCs in a test frame?

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Assuming the donated colony is Q-, then given a brand-new egg, they need not actually modify their behaviour for several days. But at what point should I expect a colony given such a test frame to show VISIBLE signs of EQCs, rather than invisible signs of feeding modified royal jelly, during the first few days post hatching?

 

[peteinwilts]

and this is the beginners section!?!

EQC - not familiar with that abbr.

 

[Davelin]

Emergency Queen Cell?

I have seen them taking shape after 4/5 days, never looked sooner than this.

 

[Hivemaker.]

EQC - not familiar with that abbr.

Emergency Queen Cell.

 

[Bosleeu]

Certainly not a guru, but to me it seems that they start remodelling the cells into queencells as soon as the larvae has hatched, so like Davelin I would look after 4-5days. It gives the larvae time to hatch plus a day or two. If they are hopelessly queenless and you give them some young larvae they will often literally start building queencells straight away.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Certainly not a guru, but to me it seems that they start remodelling the cells into queencells as soon as the larvae has hatched, so like Davelin I would look after 4-5days. It gives the larvae time to hatch plus a day or two. If they are hopelessly queenless and you give them some young larvae they will often literally start building queencells straight away.

Well with that answer you're a guru compared to me. That's very definitive; thank you. My worry with a "frame of eggs" is that there is no such thing; there is always a 3-day old larva ready to be pulled into a "scrub queen" as well, who in my nightmares then kills all the shiny egg-started queens. So I was just wondering when to look to check that had not happened and what I might see. I admit I snuck a quick peek tonight (after 2 days), given that I will not get back into the colony for a week, when much of the evidence will be sealed haha.

I saw no sign of QCs, so either the bees are on the case (as I would hope) or there is some sort of Q in there, not laying 6 weeks after emergence. I suspect the former so, sorry to have opened you, girls, but I am learning.

Thanks Bosleeu, really useful.

 

[Bosleeu]

You are welcome! My GUESS is that if you didn't see anything tonight they either have a queen (as you say unlikely after 6 weeks) or they are waiting for some larvae to hatch.

So unlikely there was a 3 day larva for them to turn into a "scrub" queen.

Hope the colony gets sorted either way before season ends.

 

[Hivemaker.]

(as you say unlikely after 6 weeks)

Had a virgin queen taking mating flights four days ago, she emerged on the 19th of July.

 

[Ben90]

Seen them 12 hours post test frame insertion, or 12 hours after a queen removal.

 

[Bosleeu]

Had a virgin queen taking mating flights four days ago, she emerged on the 19th of July.

That is a long time! So unlikely but possible, or do you get that often? And if I may ask: would you expect the long time to have any detrimental effect on her prospects as a successful queen?

 

[Hivemaker.]

That is a long time! So unlikely but possible, or do you get that often? And if I may ask: would you expect the long time to have any detrimental effect on her prospects as a successful queen?

It is a long time, the bigger the colony the longer some take to mate, normally in the mating nucs they are mated in ten days or so, if the weather is good, this queen has had plenty of chances to mate earlier, was going out to kill her and put in a new mated queen, but saw she had been out on mating flights, so will give her a few days and see how she performs, had one take two months to mate a few years ago and she went on to be a good queen for the following two years, i have had others mate seven days after emerging and turn into drone layers two months later.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

So unlikely there was a 3 day larva for them to turn into a "scrub" queen.

Hope the colony gets sorted either way before season ends.

I saw them, and thanks. In any case, there's not a lot I can do now but leave them be till spring. I doubt I'll resist the temptation to peek though...

PS: Hivemaker, the test frame was from my Buckie Q I had from you. I hope they do draw on it!

 

[Bosleeu]

It is a long time, the bigger the colony the longer some take to mate, normally in the mating nucs they are mated in ten days or so, if the weather is good, this queen has had plenty of chances to mate earlier, was going out to kill her and put in a new mated queen, but saw she had been out on mating flights, so will give her a few days and see how she performs, had one take two months to mate a few years ago and she went on to be a good queen for the following two years, i have had others mate seven days after emerging and turn into drone layers two months later.

Many thanks that is very informative. The one thing I have not seen yet is a mating flight.

I hope you get a lovely queen TryingToLetThemBee! Reading what Hivemaker says there MAY be one in there just biding her time. Sorry to hijack your thread a bit but hopefully still relevant.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Of course they may not draw Queen cells even though they are Q- , bees are like that.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes, which is one reason why I should let them bee; it's an increase colony and it has had good chances. I would have no way of knowing for sure their Q status so could not merge them. Not a lot I can/should do.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When did you 'make increase' with that colony?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I'm away from my records but at the same time as a Q who was due to emerge on 2 August from memory and is now going strong. So 16 July or so. So it's not a colony I "need to save", more one it's worth investing a frame of brood in because uniting it is too risky and I'm learning when my breeding season ends in a year like this on "Heat Island". The answer is probably " by now" but no big deal and who knows. Masses of drones still being made was the decisive factor in giving them a frame.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If they did draw a queen cell I would definitely just knock it down and unite with another colony thus giving you (hopefully) one very strong nq+ colony to take through winter rather than one struggling colony with a newly mated queen just started laying with unknown mating provenance

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Aah; that is a good line, thank you; a QC removes the fear from a unite. Thanks again.

PS plus I colud then cull a full frame of drone brood from Buckybeast at a GREAT time of the year.