Grumpy bees - no eggs/larvae - possible hatched emergency queen cell.

[sheena]

I split my hive two weeks ago to try to prevent a swarm and make up for winter losses.
One of the hives, the split with only a few frames, seems quite mellow and there is a hatched queen cell so I am hopeful there that there is a queen and I just couldn't spot her.

The other hive, the original hive, is however very grumpy and there is no signs of laying. Again I couldn't spot a queen( but that means nothing ). I have a lot of bees in this one and am just not sure what to do as it sounds as though their grumpiness could indicate no queen. It did look as though there was an emergency hatched queen cell so I would have some hope if they weren't so grumpy. There has definitely been no swarm ( far too many bees still there). At a guess I messed up during the split and lost my original queen although I'm not sure how. I did check them last week and couldn't find her then either.

So.. please advise. Anything I can do to help determine whether I have a queen or whether to try to buy one and re-queen?

Thanks!

 

[Poly Hive]

Put in a test frame, that is one with eggs and young brood, if you get a queen cell they are queenless, and if not they have a queen of some sort.

PH

 

[sheena]

Thanks - anything I can do with no access to any brood? ( Lost my other hives this winter )

 

[sheena]

I've had time to think about this some more.
So assuming the small hive does have a queen and she mates and starts laying soon then I would be able to take some brood and put it in the big grumpy hive. How long would the bees in the big hive be okay without a queen? Can they wait that long safely?

Or should I be thinking about merging them all back together if small hive queen turns up and starts doing her thing? Or would that be just too late to have any peaceful merging?

Or should I be ordering a new queen? Would hate to endanger her if it turned out there was a queen in there. But if there was a queen in there would they be so grumpy? If they had a new as yet unmated queen in there would they still be grumpy?

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

[oliver90owner]

Don't unite them yet!

Or you may end if with half of nothing? Or even twice nothing!

Be patient. The original colony, if queenless (and likely is not - although emergency cells are usually found as multiples), may develop laying workers but the bees will not age if there is no longer brood to feed (just like over-wintering).

The possibility of two queens is far better than uniting and the 'wrong un' winning the ensuing battle for the crown.

Introducing a new queen is a non starter if there is already a queen there. Making up a definitely queenless nuc sized split to accept the queen would be an option.

RAB

 

[sheena]

To continue with this sage
Hive 1 - the split with the hatched queen cell finally has some larvae in it after 4 weeks. Not many but a few so I am hopeful.
Hive2 - I bought a new queen and put her in a nuc box with a few frames from the big grumy hive last weekend. This weekend I checked and she and her assistants were still in the cage they were sent in, they had not eaten through the fondant. Most of the bees appeared to have returned to the original hive however there were a few around the cage and must have been feeding her.

Why would they not have eaten their way out through the fondant?

So I poked a hole through the fonadant and put a single sheet piece of newspaper around the cage held in place with a couple of elastic bands, pokes a couple of holes with a pin and put her into the big grumpy hive.

Fingers crossed.

Then I had a neighbour ( from over the road and a few gardens and hedges away ) pop over to ask if the bees were ok as apparently she has a few angry bees trying to attack! Fortunately my son and I were out in the garden not being bothered by bees at the time and I played it cool as I didn't want to fess up to a hive of angry bees.

So is there anything I can do other than wait a week to see if they have accepted the queen?
What can I do if they have not accepted her by next weekend? I cannot keep a hive of grumpy bees that have started seeking out other local humans to attack! Would merging with hive 1 be a possibility? Although there are a lot more bees in hive 2 than hive 1.

Thanks!

 

[knotty]

I split my hive two weeks ago to try to prevent a swarm and make up for winter losses.
One of the hives, the split with only a few frames, seems quite mellow and there is a hatched queen cell so I am hopeful there that there is a queen and I just couldn't spot her.

The other hive, the original hive, is however very grumpy and there is no signs of laying. Again I couldn't spot a queen( but that means nothing ). I have a lot of bees in this one and am just not sure what to do as it sounds as though their grumpiness could indicate no queen. It did look as though there was an emergency hatched queen cell so I would have some hope if they weren't so grumpy. There has definitely been no swarm ( far too many bees still there). At a guess I messed up during the split and lost my original queen although I'm not sure how. I did check them last week and couldn't find her then either.

So.. please advise. Anything I can do to help determine whether I have a queen or whether to try to buy one and re-queen?

Thanks!

I have just posted a very similar thread! I suspect the weather and split have made em grumpy!

My thoughts are: certainly older bees and lots of bees will be grumpier. Add to that, rubbish weather, and you've got (as I have) some grumpy assed bees!

Happily my queenless spilt (had a hatched queen cell but no evidence of queen) for 3 weeks, now has a laying queen and STILL grumpy follow me home bees. I'm going to give the new queen a stay of execution for another fortnight. With good weather and a laying queen they should settle down.

I hope your lurking (bound to be there somewhere!) virgin Q comes good with a bit of good weather.

Have patience!