Frames for Super

[shazzer]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=743

I am trying to decide on what type of frame to put in my Super.

eg. with or without foundation, wired or starter strip etc.
Hoping that you can see the attached picture. It shows foundation that has been wired.

The problem I see with this is how do you cut out the comb come harvesting time with the wires crossing the comb? should I be using no foundation and let the bees do all the work?
or should I put in a starter strip?
or attempt to go with foundation and no wires?
I am sure the answer to experienced beeks is obvious but I don't want to make a mistake and put the wrong thing in.
Also we like to eat or chew on the comb with our honey. I guess we would rather have all natural rather than a foundation that has been recycled so to speak.
Too many options

 

[nantmoel]

We always use wired foundation, it makes the foundation stronger when it being extracted, however for cut comb we use un-wired but we make the frames to show which ones have no wire.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wired foundation is for supers destined for mechanical extraction.
If you are aiming for cut comb on foundation you need un wired foundation - it's no big deal not being wired, I've extracted unwired shallow frames both tangentially and radially with no issues. All the major suppliers sell extra thin unwired foundation specifically for cut comb production.
Of course, you could go down the foundationless route with just a starter strip, just be aware that the bees can get a bit 'creative' if left to their own devices so it's usually better to have every other frame with foundation or drawn comb in

 

[Dadnlad]

Depends if you intend extracting or just cutting comb

The wires in wired fondation are to strengthen and prevent collapse in an extractor

Wireless foundation is thinner and used for cut comb
Strips of wireless foundation encourages the bees to draw their own down the frame

In our experience cut comb that the bees have drawn themselves is less chewy than even wireless foundation

However, don't give them a whole super of strip frames as they will draw comb in random directions, alternate strips and wireless so they draw straight down to the bottem bars

 

[Cazza]

Use wired for frames you spin out to extract the honey. If you end up with a decent harvest you will have need to spin to store it. If you have an OSR crop it will set and won't make nice comb honey so best to use wired frames so you can spin it out before it sets.

You can use a starter strip for your own comb honey.
Cazza

 

[shazzer]

Ok guys thanks a lot, I think I am beginning to see the light.

Its early days for me yet and so I won't be doing any mechanised extraction just by hand.

So it seems that I don't really need wired at all for my current operation.

I have a 10 frame Deep Langstroth Super.

If my understanding is correct with the above I could start out with:-

5 thin foundation unwired and
5 thin starter strips
alternated in the super to keep things mostly straight.

I know there are many ways to do things but hopefully this will be close to the mark and maybe next season I can experiment with other configurations if necessary. Unless there is a bumper season I expect I will be leaving most of it in the hive for wintering the bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have a 10 frame Deep Langstroth Super.

I hope your back is up to humping that off and on when doing inspections!
Always wise to have more than one super and personally I would use shallows.

 

[shazzer]

Good points.
The deep super came with the Hive.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Its early days for me yet and so I won't be doing any mechanised extraction just by hand.

So it seems that I don't really need wired at all for my current operation.

If you're planning to do cut comb then use unwired, if you're planning to 'crush and strain' then wired will still give some strength for when you scrape the comb back to the midrib before leaving it to filter through either a sieve or muslin.

You might be better off trying to borrow or rent an extractor from your local association rather than spoiling that much comb.

I have a 10 frame Deep Langstroth Super

The deep super came with the Hive.

Each frame will hold up to about 5 or 6 lbs honey, so the box could weigh as much as 60lbs if all the frames are filed to capacity, plus the weight of the box itself.

Can you buy shallow boxes separately?

 

[shazzer]

If you're planning to do cut comb then use unwired, if you're planning to 'crush and strain' then wired will still give some strength for when you scrape the comb back to the midrib before leaving it to filter through either a sieve or muslin.

You might be better off trying to borrow or rent an extractor from your local association rather than spoiling that much comb.


Each frame will hold up to about 5 or 6 lbs honey, so the box could weigh as much as 60lbs if all the frames are filed to capacity, plus the weight of the box itself.

Can you buy shallow boxes separately?

Will have to look into that as it is a Poly hive.
As I am waiting for my first NUC my first goal is to build up a strong colony with good reserves for winter. Getting through winter is my biggest concern.

 

[pargyle]

Will have to look into that as it is a Poly hive.
As I am waiting for my first NUC my first goal is to build up a strong colony with good reserves for winter. Getting through winter is my biggest concern.

I'd seriously think about picking up a shallow super .. it very much depends on:

a) How soon you get your Nuc.
b) The weather.
c) The amount of quality forage around you.
d) How good a layer your queen is.
e) The beekeeper not cocking up what the bees will do naturally.

but, with a shallow they will have less comb to build out in their first year - although you should not put a super on until they have drawn the brood box comb out and you have a good seven frames of brood (putting a super on before this just gives them too much space to heat - and they need heat for wax drawing). If you have a shallow there is a chance that you could get a few frames of honey you can take - even from a new colony - if all the above are right and you are lucky. A deep is a lot of wax for them to draw after they have built out the brood box whereas a shallow is not that much - mine will draw out a shallow in 10 days when the conditions are right - and I run completely foundationless (although you have to manage the frames or they can get a bit creative - just need straightening up when they are soft and the bees get the message).

 

[Hivemaker.]

- mine will draw out a shallow in 10 days when the conditions are right - and I run completely foundationless

Mine will do the same in a day, in the right conditions, and strong colony, but that is with frames fitted with foundation.

 

[Poly Hive]

If I had the proverbial magic wand frame spacers would vanish.

They are a hang over from 100 years ago!

Self spacing Hoffmans in the brood box, same in the super or if going for comb honey, Manleys.

Why oh why this nonsense is still ongoing? Simple cos the newbies can be persuaded to buy them.

KISS

PH... awaiting the screams of outrage! LOL

 

[pargyle]

Mine will do the same in a day, in the right conditions, and strong colony, but that is with frames fitted with foundation.

Mine are obviously lazy little beggars then !! I'll have a serious chat with them about performance once spring has sprung !

 

[chrisb]

I have a 10 frame Deep Langstroth Super.

Wow thought I was pushing boat out with medium supers.

 

[iand]

Each frame will hold up to about 5 or 6 lbs honey, so the box could weigh as much as 60lbs if all the frames are filed to capacity, plus the weight of the box.

We run 9 hoffman frames in a langstroth deeps as supers. Best weights have been 30+kg but more usually nearer 20kg gross.

 

[BeeJayBee]

We run 9 hoffman frames in a langstroth deeps as supers. Best weights have been 30+kg but more usually nearer 20kg gross.

Aaargh! Quick Maths! 2.2lbs = 1kg so 66lbs and 44lbs respectively? I think the average bag of potatoes still weighs around 28lbs, which gives a good idea of the weight.

Yes, I use only 9 frames in a Lang honey super, it means there can be a bit more space between the frame and overall there are fewer frames to extract.