Feeding Salt

[Psycad]

Salaam

Vicar Warre wrote at the turn of the 19th century that bees like salted (mineralised) water. He even mentioned urine in water.

Here its rather hot and I found on the net the advise to put a salt lick next to the hive. Bees would like it

Is anybody using this ? Any experience or feedback ?

Thanks in advance


PS I know that since 1890 there is some progress in apiculture

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A myth
Spoke to a young lady in Johannesburg a few years ago who did her PHD dissertation on whether bees needed the salt in any form (urine or otherwise) she found there was no proof in it - whatever they were looking for it was not salt.
Another one to put down to the demented ramblings of the mad monk.

 

[dpearce4]

A myth
Spoke to a young lady in Johannesburg a few years ago who did her PHD dissertation on whether bees needed the salt in any form (urine or otherwise) she found there was no proof in it - whatever they were looking for it was not salt.
Another one to put down to the demented ramblings of the mad monk.

but go on any farm that has bees and livestock and you will see bees on the urine.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but go on any farm that has bees and livestock and you will see bees on the urine.

That's why she did the study - but it wasn't the salt they were after. There are other things in urine as well you know

 

[masterBK]

All living things including bees need salts as nerves, muscles won't function without sodium and potassium ions and many things can't be absorbed into cells without salts as the active transport systems require them. However nectar and pollen have enough salts in them to satisfy the needs of bees so they don't really have to go looking for an additional source

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Which is exactly what she found in her studies.

 

[Little John]

There's need and then there's want ...

The previous occupant of my site used to grow flowers with the nutrient film technique, using bags of perlite as the growing medium. Those used bags are now stacked outdoors, and are usually heavy with rainwater - the bees much prefer drinking from those bags, which still contain nutrient salts from their prior use, than from the clean water source I always provide.

Such salt water is their No.1 preference, No.2 is stagnant water, with clean tap water coming in 3rd place. I don't care what any Ph.D. study has concluded - that's what I see right throughout the season.
LJ

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You must have damned good eyes to see them actually take the salt out of the water and not something else.
Your 'observation' is just assumption.

 

[Millet]

You must have damned good eyes to see them actually take the salt out of the water and not something else.
Your 'observation' is just assumption.

Loony ..

 

[Psycad]

Snip

Another one to put down to the demented ramblings of the mad monk.

Salaam Jenkins

Rambling of the mad monk ?
Are you talking about Warre ? (he wasnt a monk you know)
If so, is this how Warre is perceived nowadays ?

Any special reason ?

Cheers

 

[Psycad]

Spoke to a young lady in Johannesburg a few years ago who did her PHD dissertation on whether bees needed the salt in any form (urine or otherwise) she found there was no proof in it - whatever they were looking for it was not salt.

Is her PHD dissertation published ?
Would be interested to read it

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are you talking about Warre ? (he wasnt a monk you know)

I think you'll find he was you know - people with the title 'Abbe' usually are - it's French for Abbot, the leader of a convent of monks.
Unless he just had a penchant for wearing black frocks and round crowned broad brimmed hats

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is her PHD dissertation published ?
Would be interested to read it

No idea - I met her at a braai held by her parents who happened to be friends with my cousin. Since then my cousin has moved back to the UK and I believe the lady in question now lives in Dubai (I didn't even get her name - she just came over for a chat as she knew I was out there on a beekeeping project)

 

[Beefriendly]

but go on any farm that has bees and livestock and you will see bees on the urine.

When bees dance for a flower nectar source they also share some of the nectar collected, passing on the scent to help the newly recruited foragers identify that particular patch of flowers. As water has no scent it's difficult for the bees to pass on this "scented" information. Perhaps they go for smelly sources of water because they do have a "scent" and they can then communicate this to new recruits making it easier for the new recruits to find this "smelly" water.
Probably a load of old togger, but makes a sort of sense to me.

 

[Little John]

Rather than dimiss a perfectly reasonable observation simply on the strength of one person's Ph.D. conclusion (which could be so much cobblers of course) - it might be more educational to first do a search on this topic. A few minutes on the keyboard turned up:

Salt preferences of honey bee water foragers, Lau & Nieh, 2016

Summary statement
Individual salt preferences of honeybee water foragers were not known. Using the proboscis extension reflex response, we found strong preferences for specific concentrations of Na, Mg, K, and phosphate salts.

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/jexbio/early/2016/01/27/jeb.132019.full.pdf

And yet somebody else discovered that bees taste through their feet - so the proboscis extension reflex response might only be illuminating part of the story.

http://www.livescience.com/43103-bees-taste-with-feet.html

But - dismiss all this if you want - that attitude is in keeping with several other members of this forum. Which is sad, because all ideas and observations have the potential to be enlightening.
LJ

 

[Little John]

You must have damned good eyes to see them actually take the salt out of the water and not something else.
Your 'observation' is just assumption.

What else is there ? Perlite is an inert (chosen for that very reason) volcanic rock. Then there's rainwater - available from just about everywhere - so why choose this particular source of rainwater ?

Within the bags are the residues left from growing plants using the nutrient film technique - primarily Na, Mg, K, and phosphate salts - exactly those which have been determined as being desirable by honeybee water foragers. Add to those the added trace elements of boron, manganese etc. - and you have a highly desirable source of salts.

If you can dream up anything else which might be present in those bags - I'd be very interested to hear it.

Of course it's an assumption - the same kind of assumption one has when it rains. Where did that rain come from ? Is it not reasonable to 'assume' it came from clouds in the sky - or should we start thinking it might have come from somewhere else - some source as yet unknown to human beings ... ?
LJ

 

[Noddy]

I have a water source in my garden, specifically for the bees, but they prefer to go into the kitchen drain and drink from there! God knows why they seem to prefer the water from the drain, into which our washing machine and dishwasher drain away into, as well as the kitchen sink.

The noise of buzzing bees down under the grating sounds as busy as the hive!

 

[Karsal]

I have a water source in my garden, specifically for the bees, but they prefer to go into the kitchen drain and drink from there! God knows why they seem to prefer the water from the drain, into which our washing machine and dishwasher drain away into, as well as the kitchen sink.

The noise of buzzing bees down under the grating sounds as busy as the hive!

Salt, Nitrates and Nitrites.

Posted about this over a year ago that bees preferred a slightly salty water that I had in an old bird bath on my patio. Shot down in flames by some BUT "The Bees Know Best" they will do their own thing irrespective of what any "Wise" person on this forum says.
Like the wood ash post from the other day. If it works for you with no detrimental effect to bees then so be it.

 

[Psycad]

I think you'll find he was you know - people with the title 'Abbe' usually are - it's French for Abbot, the leader of a convent of monks.
Unless he just had a penchant for wearing black frocks and round crowned broad brimmed hats

Salaam

Very confusing these beekeeping priests in Europe.

According to Wiki
The title abbé (French; Ital. abate), as commonly used in the Catholic Church on the European continent, is the equivalent of the English "Father" (parallel etymology), being loosely applied to all who have received the tonsure.

Again according to Wiki, Father warre was stationed in Merelessart, Martainville and Saint Symphorien, as a parish priest from the catholic sect.
Dont know if that qualifies for the title of vicar but will simply call him from now on Father Warre
So far my obsessive trivia compulsive disorder.

Now, which part of his book do you consider rambling ?
I found his approach refreshing and bee-centered

Cheers

 

[Beefriendly]

Now, which part of his book do you consider rambling ?
I found his approach refreshing and bee-centered

Cheers

I quite like Warre's philosophy on beekeeping "Apiculture or beekeeping is the art of managing bees with the intention of getting the maximum return from this work with the minimum of expenditure." I would add in "and effort" as well, being a lazy SOB.