Espalier apple support posts

[Jimmy]

I want to create a perimeter espalier rectangle of apples/pears around a 10m by 12m area in my garden.
There are no posts/walls to use for wiring so I would be starting from scratch for the support posts.
What I thought should work would be 4 corner posts, each 100mm square, 2.4 in length with the bottom 0.6m secured in the ground with postcrete. The support wires would then be strung between these 4 (one corner will have an access point for the mower, me etc, so may have a double post with a gap).

Is this practical? Do I need intermediate posts along each side? There will be 3 or 4 trees along each side.
Is postcrete anygood or would a metal fence spike be sufficient?

Thanks!

 

[yeogi75]

unless you need a fence I would just plant like this
View attachment 9136

 

[Skyhook]

You will need intermediates- I would suggest max. 3m intervals. The corner posts will need godfathers, ie diagonal supports, or every time you tension the wires you'll pull them in- the gearing is surprising.

Think long-term. The trees will (hopefully) outlast the posts, so you need to be able to change them, easier said than done when established if concreted. From that point of view I would say metposts were preferable.

If you are buying pre-grown espaliers, don't fix the wires until you have planted the trees, they never come at the right spacings. If you have the patience to start with whips (proper old-school), you can set the wires as you wish.

.

 

[Jimmy]

Skyhook

Thanks, was going to start with whips/maidens as otherwise the cost of trees triples and with potentially a dozen trees that's significant.

Do you mean something like this for the corners

Metal spikes for the corner posts but how do you secure the brace posts?

 

[theeggman]

If you use Metposts as suggested for vertical posts and sink 1/2 a concrete block into the ground for the diagonal post to push against, the diag. post should also be replaceable when needed. The strain of the wires will keep the diag posts pushed against the block.

Tim

 

[pargyle]

I'd be tempted to use concrete posts for the corners set in concrete as they will take the strain of the wires ... my experience has been that it's always the end posts that go first even with diagonals. If you set these posts in postcrete they will be there forever.

I've used pieces of plastic drainpipe set into postcrete and just dropped circular fence posts into the pipe, they can then be removed if necessary .. if you make sure the bottom of the drainpipe rests in a bed of gravel any water running down the post drains away and the post doesn't rot.

I've used met posts as well but timber posts set in them seem to rot at the base very quickly and met posts are getting quite expensisve.

 

[yeogi75]

just dig hole and leave enough around sides for bricks, drop one in the bottom put in post ram bricks around the post and backfill, and the support rests on brick , that will stop post from digging in no concrete, after two years all post that have tensioners on will eventually move , if your concrete and post moves its a lot of trouble to dig out the post and concrete.

 

[Skyhook]

Yes, godfathers labelled as 'brace arm'.

I tend to use the concrete block method myself.

Have to disagre with pargyle's first comment. If you set the posts in concrete the concrete may be there forever but the posts will rot at ground level. The pipes set in concrete sounds a good idea though, if you can find matching pipes and posts.

 

[pargyle]

Yes, godfathers labelled as 'brace arm'.

I tend to use the concrete block method myself.

Have to disagre with pargyle's first comment. If you set the posts in concrete the concrete may be there forever but the posts will rot at ground level. The pipes set in concrete sounds a good idea though, if you can find matching pipes and posts.

Concrete posts in concrete ... not timber ones ! Totally agree about timber posts in concrete ... having spent the last 15 years replacing the timber (rotted at ground level) in concrete ones around my garden ... a real PITA ... I've tried everything !

 

[alanf]

Concrete posts in concrete ... not timber ones ! Totally agree about timber posts in concrete ... having spent the last 15 years replacing the timber (rotted at ground level) in concrete ones around my garden ... a real PITA ... I've tried everything !

I know what you mean. When we moved into a house we had rusted off steel angle posts in concrete. That was at the base of an old fence that had long ago been replaced by a "gappy" hedge planted between the blocks, a real mess. I resorted to concreting at ground level to level a pedestal base and adding bolt down metpost sockets into the concrete blocks. The sockets were not rigid enough to keep the fence vertical in some places so I added angled posts as braces. Not especially pretty but with some planting to distract it did the job.

What my dad did to anchor posts, and it served him for 40 or so years, was ram hardcore in the post hole. At least you could get a rotten post out again.

 

[Jimmy]

Good to see that there are multiple opinions when it comes to non-beekeeping matters.

 

[pargyle]

Good to see that there are multiple opinions when it comes to non-beekeeping matters.

Well, what do you expect from Beekeepers ? At least it's not dissolved into an argument ... yet !