Emergency QC from larvae?

[Beanwood]

One of my colonies is causing me great concern. Number of bees is severely depleted, with little flying activity.
Virgin queen hatched several weeks ago, and there is no sign of laying.
I suspect there is no queen, but need to prove it before I re-queen or merge with another - OK, frame with eggs from another colony appears to be the route. But I can't for the life of me spot eggs on a frame.
I have provided a frame with capped brood, and larvae of just a few days old, would they attempt to turn one of those that into an emergency QC? If so, how long would it take to be visible please - I don't want to disturb more than I need to, but have to balance that with the need for fairly urgent action.

Advice welcome please.

 

[madasafish]

A Queen cell is capped after the larva is 8 days old so your test frame should show QCs being drawn after 3 days . And capped after 3-5 days.

 

[flemage]

A good tip which has been sugested before is to take a photo of the frame (and mark the frame so you can find it again) where you think the eggs should be then look at it on the pc and you will be able to blow it up and look for eggs.

 

[Beanwood]

A Queen cell is capped after the larva is 8 days old so your test frame should show QCs being drawn after 3 days . And capped after 3-5 days.

Thanks madasafish with all references to 'include a frame of eggs' I just wanted to make sure I haven't missed a trick.

I'll check Saturday, and take next steps from there.

 

[Finman]

.
Put into the hive test larva frame. If bees start to rear queen cells, bye a queen.
Rearing one own queen makes no sense. It is soon August.

If you start now, your new queen start to lay after 4 weeks. Size ow colony has went to half.
Then it takes 3 weeks that first bees start to emerge. Now the the colony size is only one quarter compared to present. It is mid of September then.
How do yo get the hive to wintering shape?

When you bye a laying queen, after 4 weeks you have a good amount of new bees which have time to rear wintering bees.
From bought queen you get new bees in late half of August.

 

[Tom Bick]

Beanwood is it an eyesight thing then its not easy, or just the case you have not been able to tune your eyesight in just yet?

If you are on new comb its easy (easy to say) old dark comb a bit more difficult.

I don’t know if you have been shown a system to look but what is generally accepted is to turn with frame in hand so the sun is shining over your shoulder, its also good practice to try and keep the frame over the hive but is not always possible a quick look for the queen first and if not on the frame its ok to move the frame away from the hive so the light is over your shoulder. Then with your fingers adjust the angle of the frame so you illuminate the bottom of the cells you will have to fine adjust for different parts of the frame, as shadows will form from the cell walls. To make it a bit easier you can shake off some of the bees after you are confident the queen is not on the frame.

The easiest eggs to spot are ones that are 2 and 3 days old as they are at an angle in the bottom of the cell and not standing straight up in the bottom of the cell as newly laid eggs. You have to think small piece of white cotton 2mm long.

Good luck it can be a difficult hurdle for some to master but once over its hard not to see them. No reason why not try the photo route if it helps you spot eggs then why not.

 

[Beanwood]

A good tip which has been sugested before is to take a photo of the frame (and mark the frame so you can find it again) where you think the eggs should be then look at it on the pc and you will be able to blow it up and look for eggs.

Brilliant idea. I'll get the old camera out, so it doesn't matter if it get's covered in propolis. I don't think SWMBO would like her new Canon getting all sticky

.
Put into the hive test larva frame. If bees start to rear queen cells, bye a queen.
Rearing one own queen makes no sense. It is soon August.

Thanks Fin - if it doesn't have a queen, I will either combine or buy in. I definitely won't try and raise one now - as you say, too late in the season. If this proves there IS a queen, I can decide what to do next.

Beanwood is it an eyesight thing then its not easy, or just the case you have not been able to tune your eyesight in just yet?

If you are on new comb its easy (easy to say) old dark comb a bit more difficult.

I don’t know if you have been shown a system to look but what is generally accepted is to turn with frame in hand so the sun is shining over your shoulder, its also good practice to try and keep the frame over the hive but is not always possible a quick look for the queen first and if not on the frame its ok to move the frame away from the hive so the light is over your shoulder. Then with your fingers adjust the angle of the frame so you illuminate the bottom of the cells you will have to fine adjust for different parts of the frame, as shadows will form from the cell walls. To make it a bit easier you can shake off some of the bees after you are confident the queen is not on the frame.

The easiest eggs to spot are ones that are 2 and 3 days old as they are at an angle in the bottom of the cell and not standing straight up in the bottom of the cell as newly laid eggs. You have to think small piece of white cotton 2mm long.

Good luck it can be a difficult hurdle for some to master but once over its hard not to see them. No reason why not try the photo route if it helps you spot eggs then why not.

Thanks Tom - I've taken to using a magnifying glass, and when my mentor shows me at the club apiary, I can just about see them - so maybe it is just 'getting my eyes in'. I hope so - because that means I stand a chance in the future.

 

[Poly Hive]

Stand with sun behind you. Look for grains of rice. If you cannot see them with out a magnifying glass then your eyes are needing tested and I say that as I glasses user.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks Tom - I've taken to using a magnifying glass, and when my mentor shows me at the club apiary, I can just about see them - so maybe it is just 'getting my eyes in'. I hope so - because that means I stand a chance in the future.

Thats good perhaps you are almost there and you will develop a technique that works for you.

Just to go back to your original question then yes the bees will produce QC's from very young larvae ideally one day but in an emergency situation a few days older. I dont know the max age they will attempt a QC but someone will know.

I think we say a test frame with eggs because most people can spot eggs (awkward) and not one or two day old larvae.

 

[Beanwood]

Stand with sun behind you. Look for grains of rice. If you cannot see them with out a magnifying glass then your eyes are needing tested and I say that as I glasses user.

PH

Thanks PH - I tried it exactly as you suggest last night - a nice bright sun coming over my right shoulder, twirling the frame slightly. If they were the size of grains of rice, no problem, but eggs are TINY to me.

I've had my eyes tested - I have a 1.25 reading glass prescription, BUT I find it really difficult to do the rest of the 'bee work' wearing them - hence the magnifying glass route.

 

[Poly Hive]

I canna say I find it that easy using glasses in a bee suit as they keep slipping down the nose but I need them so persevere as the other side of that is if I dinna wear them goodness knows what I might NOT see.





PH

 

[Beanwood]

Thats good perhaps you are almost there and you will develop a technique that works for you.

Just to go back to your original question then yes the bees will produce QC's from very young larvae ideally one day but in an emergency situation a few days older. I dont know the max age they will attempt a QC but someone will know.

I think we say a test frame with eggs because most people can spot eggs (awkward) and not one or two day old larvae.

Thanks - the important bit for me is that they TRY - I don't need (Or want) it to come to fruition, I just need to ensure it's Q-, or that I have to search harder for HM.

 

[Beanwood]

I canna say I find it that easy using glasses in a bee suit as they keep slipping down the nose but I need them so persevere as the other side of that is if I dinna wear them goodness knows what I might NOT see.





PH

Perhaps I'll try and persevere.

 

[Tom Bick]

Eggs may be similar in shape to a grain of rice but no way close in size, a grain of rice would would make the queens eyes water!!!!

I always explain as in my previous post you are looking for a piece of white cotton 2mm long.

 

[oliver90owner]

I canna say I find it that easy using glasses in a bee suit as they keep slipping down the nose

Suggestion? A band (elastic band would do, but there are commercial alternatives) to hold them in place? Works for me.

 

[Finman]

.
Here is full page reading glass £ 7

and more

 

[madasafish]

I use a sports band (elasticated) to retain glasses when looking down.

Still can't see though!

 

[Poly Hive]

Just took some pics of a test frame that went in yesterday, and would you believe it both suspect colonies are saying hmm not too sure yet..lol

A test frame can be eggs or larvae it makes no odds apart from time of course so long as there is material there young enough for them to raise a queen from.

No use giving them 5 day old larvae for instance or sealed brood, it must be three day old larvae or less. Preferable one to two day olds there for them to select from.

PH

 

[The Doctor]

Looking for eggs.

I find it difficult too so I bought a magnifying glass with an led in it. £3 from ebay. You can see eggs clearly and I keep the glass in my pocket of bee suit.

S

 

[Beanwood]

Looking for eggs.

I find it difficult too so I bought a magnifying glass with an led in it. £3 from ebay. You can see eggs clearly and I keep the glass in my pocket of bee suit.

S

I'm going to start my own collection! I bought one, found it was quite good, so bought a folding one for my beesuit pocket. Didn't want to risk the £3 for an LED one but if it helps.........