Ejected Queen

[Vanterrier]

Inspected yesterday and again please with progress and growth but didn't spot Q this time. Last job was to reduce entrance as there's lots of wasps around, so reduced it to 3 inches. I decided to check how they were faring this morning and spotted the Q below the hive... she was alive but sluggish so don't know how long she'd been out there. I picked her up on the hive tool and she slowly crawled back in. Hopefully I have done the right thing and they love her again?
I got stung for my troubles too...
K

 

[hemo]

You likely have another Q in residence and they have supersceded her, if they don't kill her she will be ejected again.

If not killed and ejected again and (if she was a good one) make up a nuc and see what occurs, if she performs ok the you have a laying Q to fall back on in the new year. It could be simply though she is failing.

You need to inspect properly all Brood frames for signs of eggs and QC's, if you find a Q you need to temporary cage her and leave on the top bars whilst checking for another likely Q in the colony or signs of QC's.

 

[Delgirl]

Massive queen outside hive. Same thing happened to me earlier in the year and it was a supercedure. Hive in question seems to be going great guns now (it did not look like a great outlook at the time) but it is sad when they don’t let her back in.

 

[Vanterrier]

She came as a Virgin with a swarm beginning of June and has been doing well as far as I could see... plenty eggs and larvae on five brood frames and open comb on outer frames.
There were queen cups (four) but all were empty and I'm confident I have not missed a QC.
I wondered if I had upset them yesterday? 20 mins inspection and only change was to entrance.
K

 

[hemo]

QC's are easily hidden esp if the comb is a bit uneven, if there are gaps at the sides by the side bars then a cell can easily be hidden as part of normal looking comb.

 

[Ian123]

Either she’s been kicked out and there’s every likelihood there is a replacement already in the hive, perhaps even laying. Or she was lost out side during your inspection and fiddling with floor/entrance.
If she’s damaged you’ll probably find a load of emergency cells next inspection, so pick a couple and leave well alone. If no cells look for queen or eggs.

 

[Vanterrier]

Well she has not been ejected live or dead again so far. I'm confident I have not missed a QC (but...) and the entrance change was only a case of putting blocks in the entrance to narrow it, no lifting boxes or open floors.
How long should I leave things before the next inspection looking for QC's, Queen or eggs?
Thanks
K
Theres more drama than GOT with bee-life.

 

[Vanterrier]

So tomorrow's weather is improving so should I take a look at whats going on or leave them to it for a bit longer? How long?
TIA
K

 

[Vanterrier]

Anybody ?

K :|

 

[Ian123]

I’d have a look, see if there is emergency cells or any empty emerged cells. If it’s a supercedure it could have happened some time ago though. Don’t hang around and don’t tear them apart, just a quick in and out.
If there are qcells pick a couple destroy the rest and leave them to it!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Anybody ?

K :|

Tricky to advise from a distance but If I'm reading things correctly you inspected on Saturday and noticed the queen outside on Sunday. If she had been deliberately ejected she's probably now dead and made a meal for a hungry bird. In any case I think it warrants a proper inspection.

 

[Vanterrier]

I’d have a look, see if there is emergency cells or any empty emerged cells. If it’s a supercedure it could have happened some time ago though. Don’t hang around and don’t tear them apart, just a quick in and out.
If there are qcells pick a couple destroy the rest and leave them to it!

Thanks, I've been dying to take a look but obviously nervous of going in too soon. Thanks for the pointers, I'll have a look in the morning as its pretty stormy here atm.
I'll get in and out ASAP looking for Q(s)
Emergency cells, open or closed
Pick a couple and destroy the rest.
Presumably I'm not expected to see two Q's? But if there's eggs there's at least one Q? So kill all QC's?
I appreciate your advice.
I also noted wasps around, one fighting a bee on the floor won its bout and cleared off, another also won and carried the bee away with it!
K

 

[hemo]

If you see eggs and QC's then it is hard to say what is occurring as the colony isn't ours and we don't know the time line events of what has gone on exactly.
Eggs and QC's present could be superscedure of and old or failing Q, or could be insurance as they aren't 100% happy or sure of a new Q.
What ever you do , if you do knock down QC's they will most likely make more.
Shame you didn't mark the ejected Q because now if you find a Q you won't know if she is old or new.

If you do see QC's and only two or three , I would be inclined to leave two and mark there location . Preferably leave open cells with a larvae and try and date the cell by larvae size to give you a time line .

 

[Vanterrier]

Just to say. Ref age of Q... I caught the swarm complete with Virgin Q on 5th June. I sweated three weeks until eggs began to appear. Brood was increasing nicely and I saw the Q running around on 6th July. Theres six frames of brood with capped honey above but still empty frames either side of the nest.
Hence the ejected Q was a bit of a shock.
Thanks for your advice chaps, much appreciated.
Let's see what tomorrow brings
K

 

[hemo]

In that case then if QC's are present then let them do their work, they are obviously not happy with the current Q.
Is there a chance the Q you saw is a different one altogether from another colony who has got lost ?
Do you have another nearby colony ?

 

[Vanterrier]

Nothing for a couple of miles as far as I know. The ejected Q did look different, larger abdomen, "fatter" than the one I saw running around but I wondered if I was imagining it or that being outside for a while might have changed its appearance...

K

 

[Vanterrier]

Thorough inspection this morning around 10am...
No Queens seen
No QC's
Still 4xQ cups but empty
No eggs - might be my lamp oil problem?
Lots of Larvae and some are very small, just hatched
Looks like nothing has been laid in last 3 days since the Q was ejected.
K

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thorough inspection this morning around 10am...
No Queens seen
No QC's
Still 4xQ cups but empty
No eggs - might be my lamp oil problem?
Lots of Larvae and some are very small, just hatched
Looks like nothing has been laid in last 3 days since the Q was ejected.
K

Awkward timing but I'd try a test frame pdq. If they draw QCs you could save a lot of angst and valuable colony time with a donated mated queen.