does the date on apigard really matter ?

[BeeJayBee]

Law pft....... I was looking for some one to say .... This and that will .... Law don't matter + I swair honey never gos off that has a date... So don't go off ur heads + I don't sell honey also my honey wonte be in hive when treatmeant starts + I'm part of no group... Iv read loads of books every one has difrent ways of looking arfter there's ? So it would be stupid to foolow one old school bee keepper. As times ante the same as 30 years ago if u don't change year on year u will loose ur bees

Can somebody translate please?

 

[drstitson]

"if you don't change .... u will loose ur bees"


and if you don't comply with relevant legislation, fail to pay the ensuing £5000 fine when TS catch up with you and end up in prison......

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

"if you don't change .... u will loose ur bees"


and if you don't comply with relevant legislation, fail to pay the ensuing £5000 fine when TS catch up with you and end up in prison......

I am sure the post above says the honey is for their own consumption and will not be on the hive when treatment takes place. Trading Standards would not be involved if that is the case. Surely the concern is, "Will the treatment still be effective?" and that being so if the pack is sealed there should not be a problem. However Thymol is volatile that is why this particular method works at a certain temperature and not below it. Thymol is also capable of degrading certain materials so the user needs to inspect a package containing it very carefully to be sure that there is no damage (there my be tiny pinprick holes that are easily missed). If the Thymol has degraded the packaging then the product will likely be innefective and your may regret using it if the varoa load is so high as to make the colony un-viable.
I am not using apiguard this year. I shall be using essential oils (kept in glass bottles that do not get degraded) to a recipe that I have been kindly forwarded.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Can somebody translate please?

Another pint of your best please innkeeper?

 

[drstitson]

"I am sure the post above says the honey is for their own consumption and will not be on the hive when treatment takes place. Trading Standards would not be involved if that is the case"

Sure. my quoting of that part of kristin's post was simply to emphasise my point re compliance with the legislation for those that DO intend to sell to the public, on no matter how small a scale.

This thread has already identified others blissfully unaware that they needed a medicines record for their chosen livestock, or that (no matter how arbitrary) expiry dates MUST be complied with - any problem down the line and the proverbial would hit the fan come investigation by the powers that be.

we all know that things don't go off or change properties overnight but hey that's modern life.
if we all relied on home made tinctures there'd be no problem.

 

[alanf]

This thread has already identified others blissfully unaware that they needed a medicines record for their chosen livestock, or that (no matter how arbitrary) expiry dates MUST be complied with - any problem down the line and the proverbial would hit the fan come investigation by the powers that be.

That's the medicines legislation, agree entirely. However the grey area here is what is, or is not, medicine. That creates some anomalies that don't appear to have been anticipated. Take a few scenarios:

• Keeper A treats with a proprietary "hive cleaner" containing thymol and some other essential oils. No records needed, it's not registered by VMD.
• Keeper B treats with Apiguard. Bought last year but still works, doesn't record the batch or pack dates.
• Keeper C treats with Apiguard and records the full details, including the pack dates which are a few months over.

As it stands, all three have the same active ingredient in the hive. Keeper A has done nothing wrong. Keeper B could be prosecuted for not keeping records, but I'm not aware of any prosecutions of small scale beekeepers. Asking around I'm guessing 80% or more of UK beekeepers are actually in Keeper B's position, many are surprised if you point out there is an expiry date. Keeper C can be prosecuted because there is evidence that they broke the rules. There are precedents for prosecutions under the legislation, but the publicised cases are all far more serious such as knowingly changing dates before selling expired medicine.

As it stands there is a perverse incentive to either not keep records or avoid registered medicines; the legal consequences and penalties are likely to be absent or at any rate much less severe. I'm not disagreeing with what the legislation says or that it's far more rigorously enforced in human treatment. Recent clenbuterol cases question how rigorous enforcement is in the commercial food chain. I'm actually writing here as one of the few I know who does write treatments down. I'm just pointing out that the reality is that treatment recording is widely ignored by beekeepers, just as it is by backyard poultry keepers for that matter.

As Margaret Elizabeth says, she's going to treat with essential oils - unregulated, untested, no expiry dates - because they're not medicine. I'm not criticising that, it's perfectly legal and an entirely logical consequence of the way the legislation applies to treatments. Used with caution it can be safe, and I'm not having a go at any individual who makes the choice. However, a cocktail of oils with little or no established concentration, dose or efficacy is permitted, yet using a pack of apiguard one day past the pack date could be prosecuted. I'll look at any reports to the contrary but I just don't believe a prosecution would ever clear the hurdles of the prosecution authorities and judges without being thrown out.

 

[drstitson]

if you don't keep records (and claim to have not used products) they can test for residues. big trouble if lying i'd imagine.

 

[drstitson]

the issue is not so much about expiry date compliance but rather where ultimate responsibility lies.

say someone dies of a rare issue caused by ingestion of something that contaminated a part of a batch of medicine X eg a bug growing in it.
everyone else used their supplies well before expiry and no probs reported or likely. BUT by using the OOD product shifts (at least some) responsibility onto you rather than the manufacturer despite them having been the source.