Confused about timings when moving swarms

[Angularity]

My neighbour had four swarms in her garden last year. One of them was mine but the other three weren't. It may well be that she'll pick up another couple this year, and I'm ready to help out by collecting them. I know one came from the colony in the chimney of the old house four doors down.

I've done a lot of reading but am still confused about when you can move them.

Is it right that they lose all internal maps once they swarm?

After what period of time in a temporary location (like a nuc) does it become a 'permanent' home for them, i.e. when does the '3 feet or 3 miles' rule start to apply?

 

[Heather]

The 3 feet/mile rule doesnt apply when hiving a swarm.
If the swarm came from your colony you could put it in another hive 6 ft away

A) If you are popping the swarm into the hive from above 1) put a queen excluder under your brood box (for 2-3 days to stop them absconding) 2) block the entrance up until all bees safely in the hive (usually about 1 hour later). Nothing worse than rescuing a swarm , putting them in the hive and them all legging it out of the front door!
B)If you are walking them into the new hive (lovely to watch) then I usually put a queen excluder under the brood box AFTER they are safely installed.
Remove QE in 2 days.
If the swarm is yours and known to be healthy I usually feed within the hour with some syrup.
If the swarm is of unknown origin, wait 2 days before feeding.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you put a swarm in a nuc you can put it anywhere you like. BUT once they are there and they start foraging that is home so your rule will apply.

 

[user 6228]

make sure your hive obeys all the criteria for nest selection. You dont want the nest selection committee to have second thoughts

• 40 litres
• entrance under 20 sq cm - (black out the OMF)
• put it on a stand ... 5m is just unrealistic 0.5m is achievable
• entrance southish

 

[Plenty of honey]

make sure your hive obeys all the criteria for nest selection. You dont want the nest selection committee to have second thoughts

• 40 litres
• entrance under 20 sq cm - (black out the OMF)
• put it on a stand ... 5m is just unrealistic 0.5m is achievable
• entrance southish

dont give them any excuse to abscond. A little off topic, but its one thing understanding they can be moved a short distance when in " Swarm Mode" but stick on a feeder, reduce the entrance if its not a huge swarm, close off ventilated base and keep a very close eye on them until its nearly dusk, then you should be fairly safe. Personally i usually try and move a swarm pretty quickly, to another apiary. it seems to help against absconding. Saying all that, i lost 2 last year. it does happen!

 

[Angularity]

Thank for the answers.

So my understanding is now, if I see the swarm flying into (let's say) a nuc box, I can close that up and move them where I like.

If I scoop them off a bush into a nuc box, I can close them up and move them where I like.

If they fly into a nuc box, and I let them settle in and start foraging, then it's the old 3feet/3miles routine.

And I thought, how can I manage a 0.5m stand, all mine are 18 inches??? I think I need a lie down.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes to all esp the last.

PH

 

[linoleum bonypart]

What constitutes 40l .... how big are poly nucs

 

[Anduril]

What constitutes 40l .... how big are poly nucs

14x12 p@ynes nucs work for me, I have a very good success rate, using them as bait hives. Also closing the floor mesh with ply wood increases the chances.

 

[Little John]

What constitutes 40l .... how big are poly nucs

The figure of 40L comes from a flawed experiment which people keep quoting from because there's not been another to compare it's published results with (afaik). I shouldn't worry too much about such details - just put a few boxes out in likely areas with some kind of bait inside - old comb, chunks of propolis, lemon grass oil or similar. If you do a Google search for "bait hives", "swarm traps" etc., you'll see that an amazing variety of boxes of all shapes and sizes have been used with good effect - bees aren't that fussy. The craziest (most ingenious) I've yet seen are plastic tree-pots with a sheet of plywood placed on top for the bees to attach comb to.
Good luck
LJ

 

[Karsal]

14x12 p@ynes nucs work for me, I have a very good success rate, using them as bait hives. Also closing the floor mesh with ply wood increases the chances.

Caught two swarms in two days in two baited poly nucs on the same conifer hedge in my back garden last year.
Will be trying another couple of baited hives this year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Standard Nat or a 14x12 nuc usually work
I put a frame of old brood comb in at the back/side
I got shouted down on FB for suggesting that, strangely

 

[Swarm]

Likely they think you could spread disease but they fail to realise 'old' is not 'infected'.

 

[bjosephd]

The figure of 40L comes from a flawed experiment which people keep quoting from because there's not been another to compare it's published results with (afaik). I shouldn't worry too much about such details - just put a few boxes out in likely areas with some kind of bait inside - old comb, chunks of propolis, lemon grass oil or similar. If you do a Google search for "bait hives", "swarm traps" etc., you'll see that an amazing variety of boxes of all shapes and sizes have been used with good effect - bees aren't that fussy. The craziest (most ingenious) I've yet seen are plastic tree-pots with a sheet of plywood placed on top for the bees to attach comb to.
Good luck
LJ

I was under the impression the Tom Seeley study was respected? I thought they had a number (3?) of different sizes and the 40litre one was most often chosen by the bees?

How was the study flawed? I'm not on the defence... just curious.

I caught my swarm in a double national brood - bottom box empty, top box some frames of drawn comb.




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[Eyeman]

I was under the impression the Tom Seeley study was respected? I thought they had a number (3?) of different sizes and the 40litre one was most often chosen by the bees?

How was the study flawed? I'm not on the defence... just curious.

Nothing flawed about Thomas Seeley's studies. Just need to interpret the results in the context of what applies in the USA may not in the UK.

 

[bjosephd]

Nothing flawed about Thomas Seeley's studies. Just need to interpret the results in the context of what applies in the USA may not in the UK.

Oh I see...

As in types bees that are knocking about?

Or types of boxes that are knocking about?

Not sure what I'm going to use as bait boxes this year. Probably an empty lang box, an empty lang nuc, and my (now disused) national boxes.

At least 2 'feral' colonies nearby here!


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[Millet]

Mine swarmed into this Nuc last year which i would estimate to be around 20ltr, i had a national brood body set up in exactly the same way around 10ft away but they chose this.

 

[bjosephd]

Mine swarmed into this Nuc last year which i would estimate to be around 20ltr, i had a national brood body set up in exactly the same way around 10ft away but they chose this.

Cool!

What size hole is that? 'Drill' diameter?

I was looking at the various flat wood bits in B&Q but couldn't decide.

Tom Seeley would say 32mm... what say you?


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[Cussword]

Also closing the floor mesh with ply wood increases the chances.

When I've used a poly nuc to pick up a swarm I've closed the open mesh floor. Despite making sure the queen is in the nuc you find a few hundred workers underneath the mesh.

I found that out when I collected my first swarm, my wife was so happy to have the extra company in the car.

 

[Anduril]

my wife was so happy to have the extra company in the car.