Cleaning hives with household bleach

[bee56]

I’ve just found the answer to my own question about cleaning hives with household bleach the link is below.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20687&page=3

 

[oliver90owner]

I’ve just found the answer to my own question

Shirley there is no need to post it then?

 

[Lorenz]

It was worth posting for me. There is AFB really close to some of my apiaries- less than 3k. FERA are all over it and are checking all local registered hives, including mine. They think they've not yet found the source, so it isn't over yet. I have been scorching and cleaning with acetic acid, in a bid to kill any stray pathogens, but have been struck by the fact that AFB spores can survive acetic and that with scorching it might not get the spores hidden in the joints. I'm going to add bleach to my list of weapons.

Is there any point using bleach in the buckets I keep the tools in rather than washing soda?

 

[BeeJayBee]

@ Lorenz. Check the Beebase literature on Foulbrood. Read it very carefully. https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=7

 

[itma]

I’ve just found the answer to my own question about cleaning hives with household bleach the link is below.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20687&page=3

Are you using poly hives?
As per the (later) responses on that other thread, bleach is advised for poly but not for wood.

...
Is there any point using bleach in the buckets I keep the tools in rather than washing soda?

My SBI told me that at his pre-season briefing, it was emphasised to him that strong washing soda solution (unadulterated with anything else) was the best, safest, thing for the inspectors to use in their buckets - and they do expect to come across "the real thing" and need to avoid transporting pathogens to their next inspection site.
Good enough for them, good enough for me.

 

[user 6228]

Are you using poly hives?
As per the (later) responses on that other thread, bleach is advised for poly but not for wood.



My SBI told me that at his pre-season briefing, it was emphasised to him that strong washing soda solution (unadulterated with anything else) was the best, safest, thing for the inspectors to use in their buckets - and they do expect to come across "the real thing" and need to avoid transporting pathogens to their next inspection site.
Good enough for them, good enough for me.

Strong Washing soda solution... you need to be specific about the concentration.

If a bee inpector comes to call he/she will be quized on the exact bio-security measures he /she has taken including solution concentrations before they come on to the premises.

 

[bee56]

I may be wrong but its under the heading of Hive Cleaning and Sterilisation on BeeBase? 6 parts water to 1 of bleach.

If you do a search for hive cleaning it comes up with the PDF File.
ht?ps://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/searchResults.cfm

 

[itma]

Yes - BUT -

I think that document is mainly concerned about detailing the processes rather than saying which is appropriate. (Yes, that document doesn't say bleach is not appropriate to wood ...)
Go to the Beebase "Information resources" page
https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167
(Your document is at the bottom of the list.)
Take a look at the "Disinfection" download - at question 7, it spells out the choice of methods for wooden hives (and does not include bleach) but it does (at question 9) mention bleach only for "plastic parts". At question 10, it says cleaning plastic hives has its own faq (which again mentions bleach).
Those methods in the Disinfection document are described in greater practical detail in your document.

 

[itma]

Strong Washing soda solution... you need to be specific about the concentration.

If a bee inpector comes to call he/she will be quized on the exact bio-security measures he /she has taken including solution concentrations before they come on to the premises.

My understanding was that it was the standard 5 litres water to 1 kg soda.
The answer was given to a question prompted by an association group leader having insisted that bleach should be added to the soda in the hive tool bucket. The SBI was definite that he had been instructed that such additions were actually counterproductive.

Naturally, I'm keen to see any reports of experimental comparison.
I'd have thought that a cocktail might be more widely effective against a spectrum of different bugs, even if it didn't work better against AFB (for example) specifically. But I'm sure that the SBIs do exactly as they are instructed!

 

[Bram]

I’ve just found the answer to my own question

Shirley there is no need to post it then?

i thought his name was bee56

 

[Lorenz]

I'm mostly on wood, so I won't be sterilising the hives with bleach and water.

Read foulbrood PDF again carefully. Looks like the only extra thing I could do would be move them somewhere where they are out of the reach of the robbers from AFB colonies... but then i can't really move them as the very reason I am worried is that they are at high risk, so it wouldn't be fair.

 

[Lorenz]

The module 3 notes say that 10-hydroxydecenoic acid has strong bactericidal properties and will kill AFB spores. Maybe better than bleach as at least 10 HDA is a normal constituent of brood food. Shame they don't seem to sell it or say how to increase the production of it.


Someone will have to bring me a paper bag to blow into soon.

 

[beebreeder]

My understanding was that it was the standard 5 litres water to 1 kg soda.
The answer was given to a question prompted by an association group leader having insisted that bleach should be added to the soda in the hive tool bucket. The SBI was definite that he had been instructed that such additions were actually counterproductive.

Naturally, I'm keen to see any reports of experimental comparison.
I'd have thought that a cocktail might be more widely effective against a spectrum of different bugs, even if it didn't work better against AFB (for example) specifically. But I'm sure that the SBIs do exactly as they are instructed!

I am no scientist but I think you will find soda is a strong alkaline and bleach is acid so mixing would neutralise there effect totally, but correct me any scientists out there

 

[Walrus]

Oops, no, bleach is a strong alkali

 

[Ruary]

Oops, no, bleach is a strong alkali

Since when?

bleach is a solution of hydrochlorous acid (HOCl). Mix it with washing soda and I think you might get Chlorine emission.

 

[simonrp]

Great care needs to be excercised when mixing bleach products.
Many are not compatable and will liberate chlorine gas when mixed.
Breathing chlorine is a great way to kill yourself, you basically drown in your own snot.

 

[Ely]

Bleach is alkaline. That's why when mixed with acid, such as vinegar, it neutralises to form an equilibrium releasing chlorine gas as a waste product from the reaction

 

[Walrus]

Great care needs to be excercised when mixing bleach products.
Many are not compatable and will liberate chlorine gas when mixed.
Breathing chlorine is a great way to kill yourself, you basically drown in your own snot.

Commercial household liquid bleach ranges from 5 - 10 % sodium hypochlorite and has a pH of 11 to 12.

Although sodium hypochlorite solution itself is only moderately toxic, it liberates chlorine gas when acidified e.g. if mixed with acidic cleaning agents, vinegar etc. Mixing sodium hypochlorite with ammonia-based solutions gives rise to chloramine compounds. Both chlorine and chloramines are strong respiratory irritants.

 

[rogerlouis]

It is irrelevant to say that bleach is acid or alkaline. Colloquially bleach is any compound that easily releases chlorine, or another 'bleaching' agent. Ruary is absolutely correct that hypochlorous acid is produced when chlorine-based bleaches are used.

Do not mix different products used for bleaching. Many of these will produce poisonous gases when they are mixed, often in violent reactions.

Well, that is my high-handed two pence worth !

 

[Walrus]

Further to itma's idea about a "cocktail" of products, there is a commercially available "bleach' called Clorox which contains both "bleach" (Sodium Hypochlorite) and Washing Soda (Sodium Carbonate). You can see this on their website on the "ingredients & safety" page.

Apparently it is "tried & true for over six generations" but I don't know if that is generations of people or bees!