can i use this type of Insulation

[madasafish]

That new signature has just found an extension.

or like this

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thanks, all

food for thought in all that , think i will use 150mm on one hive and see but keep the rest as kingspan

 

[Madge]

I would not bother using it. Wool soaks up damp which ruins the thermal insulation.

Unless you surround the insulation with a sealed impermeable layer - and I mean SEALED - then in the winter it will pick up damp ...

Plus, the wool-based insulations generally include 1% by weight of Thorlan IW, a pesticide used to kill wool moths. Whether or not this chemical does harm to bees is open to conjecture ...

I use wool and I love it! It does not get damp - that's one of the good qualities of wool that helps to make it such good insulation. And MF, most of my crownboards are inner crown boards - so not sealed. Tiny gaps at the sides are possible. I definitely don't wrap it in plastic either.

I have polystyrene beehives. The slabs of wool do sometimes get slightly wet at the very outside edges and on top where they touch the hive walls - but the inside stays warm, dry and cosy. It also wraps easily around feeders. I use them all year round.

CVB - I don't know about pesticides. I got a lot of off-cuts from a supplier who uses only borax. It's not caused any problems to the bees.
Kitta

 

[charlievictorbravo]

CVB - I don't know about pesticides. I got a lot of off-cuts from a supplier who uses only borax. It's not caused any problems to the bees.
Kitta

Maybe the insecticide is not used universally but these people sure use it:
http://ie.sheepwoolinsulation.com/products/premium_insulation_technical.asp
That link also explains the hygroscopic nature of wool.

CVB

 

[Madge]

Yes, I used wool from Thermafleece, treated with borax. They told me (warned me? I don't know) that some manufacturers use something else.
Kitta

 

[little_john]

That link also explains the hygroscopic nature of wool.

That's a sales-pitch of course - it's a little more complex than that:

"Wool fiber exteriors are hydrophobic (repel water) and the interior of the wool fiber is hygroscopic (attracts water); this makes a wool garment able to cover a wet diaper while inhibiting wicking, so outer garments remain dry. Wool felted and treated with lanolin is water resistant, air permeable, and slightly antibacterial, so it resists the buildup of odor." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wool

"Wool is a highly effective insulating material ..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wool_insulation

As with many other thermal insulating materials - it is the air trapped within the material which provides the insulation, not the actual material itself.

This hygroscopic stuff is something of a red-herring ... as excess moisture will tend to pass through it, rather than build up.

LJ

 

[Madge]

... As with many other thermal insulating materials - it is the air trapped within the material which provides the insulation, not the actual material itself.

This hygroscopic stuff is something of a red-herring ... as excess moisture will tend to pass through it, rather than build up.

LJ

LJ - I'm not an authority on insulation - but from experience, I don't think it works just like 'many other insulating materials' 'trapping air' because then a piece of foam (spongy foam like Thorn's quilts) above my bees' crown boards should have worked just as well - and it didn't. It got soggy and wet and horrible.

Wool is capable of dealing with a lot more vapour before turning soggy than other materials.

Kitta

 

[little_john]

Hello Kitta - what I meant was 'trapping air' like breeze blocks, or double glazing panels. It's the trapped air which provides the insulation of those materials. Solid concrete and glass aren't too good on their own.

Your stuff turned soggy because it soaked up the moisture and held it, rather than allowing it to pass through, as wool does. I wouldn't describe stuff like that as really being suitable for insulation.

Contrary to popular opinion, even common expanded polystyrene (as used in packaging) will absorb water (albeit slowly), and become heavy and useless as an insulator. I first became aware of this when scuba-diving in Malta, where people had been chucking polystyrene drinking cups into the sea. They float like good 'uns for a while, but slowly wick-up water, and eventually sink to the bottom.

I use expanded polystyrene myself for insulation, but only over sealed crown-boards. On my Russian Alpine Hives (Warre variants) I wrap it well with thick polythene to prevent moisture absorption.
Natural wool would be ideal for the quilt box filling of standard Warre hives (I run mine using the Delon system) - for I very much agree with your comments about wool.

LJ

 

[oliver90owner]

Wool as an insulant?

100 million, or more, sheep cannot be wrong, shirley!

 

[user 6228]

Hello Kitta - what I meant was 'trapping air' like breeze blocks, or double glazing panels. It's the trapped air which provides the insulation of those materials. Solid concrete and glass aren't too good on their own.

Your stuff turned soggy because it soaked up the moisture and held it, rather than allowing it to pass through, as wool does. I wouldn't describe stuff like that as really being suitable for insulation.

Contrary to popular opinion, even common expanded polystyrene (as used in packaging) will absorb water (albeit slowly), and become heavy and useless as an insulator. I first became aware of this when scuba-diving in Malta, where people had been chucking polystyrene drinking cups into the sea. They float like good 'uns for a while, but slowly wick-up water, and eventually sink to the bottom.

I use expanded polystyrene myself for insulation, but only over sealed crown-boards. On my Russian Alpine Hives (Warre variants) I wrap it well with thick polythene to prevent moisture absorption.
Natural wool would be ideal for the quilt box filling of standard Warre hives (I run mine using the Delon system) - for I very much agree with your comments about wool.

LJ

For each material one has to look closely at how much water is absorbed and how that effects the thermal conductivity... even the example above of polystyrene does not apply to all polystyrenes. i.e. Extruded polystyrene behaves differently to Expanded polystyrene.
With Wool based materials one would have to look at what the manufacturer says in the spec as the processing will affect the outcome.

The wool in pack may not be the same as the wool on the sheeps back shearly!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I use wool and I love it!

I must say that the're's nothing like the feel of wool against your bare skin

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I must say that the're's nothing like the feel of wool against your bare skin

[No! NO! Don't say it, Dusty! Just because he's from the other side of Offa's Dyke. Control yourself!]



.

 

[oliver90owner]

The wool in pack may not be the same as the wool on the sheeps back shearly!

Now, that really was a cutting comment!

 

[TBRNoTB]

The wool in pack may not be the same as the wool on the sheeps back shearly!

Now, that really was a cutting comment!

It takes one to know one!

 

[thorn]

I must say that the're's nothing like the feel of wool against your bare skin

So, you'll be buried naked in a wool coffin then. Or would you be put off because they're made in Leeds?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So, you'll be buried naked in a wool coffin then. Or would you be put off because they're made in Leeds?

Woolen burial gown maybe - at one time it was a legal requirement for the burial garments to be wool - to support our woolen industry. Nowadays it would have to be invalidity cheques.