can i use this type of Insulation

[MuswellMetro]

ok,

i currently use 50mm or 100mm of Kingspan cut to go in a SUPER which then go above solid crownboards,so i am in the"insulation Camp" with good results

i normally raid skips on loft conversions for 50mm and 100m kingsspan but I live in a Green welly, Chelsea Tractor land where a 3 bedroom terraced houses costs £1.5m and the local have all gone Green on things like building work (I think it is a conservation area issue as well)

So they now use a Green insulation instead of kingspan and it is about five time the price

See photo, it is Wool insulation ,it is like 50mm thick underfelt and there is a whole skip full of it 100yds from my house

The wool i assume is porous to water vapour whereas kingspan is not

So what would be the disadvantages of using the 150mm wool insulation instead of 50mm or 100mm kingspan

 

[Philip]

Encapsulate it in polythene or similar to make it usable, it won't have the same u/value as the poly so you may get thrown out of the 'insulation camp' well they do have standards....

it is probably better than nothing, just don't use matchsticks!!!

 

[user 6228]

its all down to thermal conductivity . i.e the lambda value

 

[bontbee]

I'd be interested in thoughts on this, too, as I have some left over. Not that I live in green welly, green tractor land - I 'm just doing my bit to support the Welsh wool industry!

I don't have gaping holes in the coverboards, and the roofs are in good nick, (though, as I bought them, they do have vents). Will this kind of insulation just suck moisture out of the, currently very damp, atmosphere? Especially if the duvet cover is made of hessian? (I could use a bin bag, I s'pose...)

 

[bontbee]

its all down to thermal conductivity . i.e the lambda value

OK, so where do I get a thermometer that measures in Kelvin...

 

[user 6228]

its all down to thermal conductivity . i.e the lambda value
seen its between 0.035 to 0.04.
You are going to need 100mm to do the work of 50mm kingspan

You will need either a vapour barrier between it and the bees or ventilation above.

 

[bontbee]

Thanks Derek. What is a good range for the R value? Is it relevant? I gather that a higher number is better, but don't have any idea of what might be a good figure for an R value. (I've tried googling and am none the wiser)

 

[madasafish]

I would not bother using it. Wool soaks up damp which ruins the thermal insulation.

Unless you surround the insulation with a sealed impermeable layer - and I mean SEALED - then in the winter it will pick up damp, and in the spring it will pick up damp, and in the summer it will be dry - if we have a warm dry summer - and in autumn it will be damp.

And IF you do have a really impermeable sealed layer, the slightest hole will result in damp..

Given that beekeeping is a series of mishaps and near disasters and bodges, anyone who thinks a sealed impermeable layer is going to remain sealed and impermeable is .. well .. optimistic.
So it's about as useful as a chocolate teapot in the real world - in my view.

I apologise to perfect beekeepers who never puncture or break anything... for them it will be ideal..

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Plus, the wool-based insulations generally include 1% by weight of Thorlan IW, a pesticide used to kill wool moths. Whether or not this chemical does harm to bees is open to conjecture but to be on the safe side, you'd want to encapsulate the wool batts in an impermeable membrane - polythene, etc.

CVB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

its all down to thermal conductivity . i.e the lambda value

Or should that be the Lamb Baa value in this case?

 

[bontbee]

I would not bother using it. Wool soaks up damp which ruins the thermal insulation.

Unless you surround the insulation with a sealed impermeable layer - and I mean SEALED - then in the winter it will pick up damp, and in the spring it will pick up damp, and in the summer it will be dry - if we have a warm dry summer - and in autumn it will be damp.

And IF you do have a really impermeable sealed layer, the slightest hole will result in damp..

Given that beekeeping is a series of mishaps and near disasters and bodges, anyone who thinks a sealed impermeable layer is going to remain sealed and impermeable is .. well .. optimistic.
So it's about as useful as a chocolate teapot in the real world - in my view.

I apologise to perfect beekeepers who never puncture or break anything... for them it will be ideal..

As I suspected then. Thanks MaaF.

 

[user 6228]

I would not bother using it. Wool soaks up damp which ruins the thermal insulation.

Unless you surround the insulation with a sealed impermeable layer - and I mean SEALED - then in the winter it will pick up damp, and in the spring it will pick up damp, and in the summer it will be dry - if we have a warm dry summer - and in autumn it will be damp.

And IF you do have a really impermeable sealed layer, the slightest hole will result in damp..

Given that beekeeping is a series of mishaps and near disasters and bodges, anyone who thinks a sealed impermeable layer is going to remain sealed and impermeable is .. well .. optimistic.
So it's about as useful as a chocolate teapot in the real world - in my view.

I apologise to perfect beekeepers who never puncture or break anything... for them it will be ideal..

I would read upon its use in buildings and see how successful or otherwise it is.. A hive is just a building

 

[user 6228]

Or should that be the Lamb Baa value in this case?

<Insert favourite Welshman and sheep joke >

 

[itma]

I can't believe that it would be hygroscopic (collect water from vapour).

However, its insulating properties would disappear if it got wet.
With a sealed coverboard and a good roof, the only question would be about rain ingress at the (unpropolised) joint between super/eke and the top of the coverboard.
Hence … if I was given a skipful of the stuff, I'd be thinking of using it, on top of a single layer of 'Kingspan'-type board, to fill the rest of the void in the insulation super.
Should be kept dry like that.
And add some more insulating goodness.

 

[itma]

… beekeeping is a series of mishaps and near disasters and bodges …

That new signature has just found an extension.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Plus, the wool-based insulations generally include 1% by weight of Thorlan IW, a pesticide used to kill wool moths. Whether or not this chemical does harm to bees is open to conjecture but to be on the safe side, you'd want to encapsulate the wool batts in an impermeable membrane - polythene, etc.

CVB

Woops - Sorry, duplicate post - how did that happen?

 

[little_john]

I would not bother using it. Wool soaks up damp which ruins the thermal insulation.

I think you'd better consult the numerous thousands of sheep on Scottish moorlands and on the mountains of North Wales - 'cause wool is the only protection they have ...

The more hostile the environment the coarser the wool on those breeds of sheep which live there - and is usually only fit for making felt (and insulation) with.
Wool contains lanolin of course, most of which is removed during the washing process. But this lanolin is often returned to wool after processing, such that wool is favoured by fishermen and yachtsmen, and many others who find themselves operating in a constantly 'damp' environment.

I would think that this discarded insulation would be highly valued by those who prefer some upward movement of air, such as those operating Warre hives.

Personally, I wouldn't seal it - let it breathe naturally - as in a loft.

LJ

 

[REDWOOD]

If you have ever been fortunate to own a pair of sheepskin slippers or gloves you will know how warm they are compared to man made equivalents, before anyone jumps on their high horse I'm not comparing sheep's wool to Kingspan, just saying it is good at keeping your feet and hands warm and cosy and it's a natural product

 

[bontbee]

No lanolin left - or replaced - in this stuff. It's as dry as a chip.

Re mitts and slippers, there's an additional factor - compare woolly gloves to sheepskin ones...

 

[madasafish]

That new signature has just found an extension.

Like this?