Bee-killing pesticides use banned

[nicholaskeene]

Yep. Just wait for everyone to realise that the seed treatment was the lesser of two evils... Spraying will be bad for so many insects and thus all the species which depend on them- birds, reptiles, amphibians, mammals, fish.

Surely it's spraying wirh neonics which is banned, not seed treatment or is wilco right?

 

[RJC]

both seed treatments and spraying with neonics is banned; Wilco was referring to spraying of other non-neonic insecticides I think.

 

[Wilco]

Surely it's spraying wirh neonics which is banned, not seed treatment or is wilco right?

Spraying with neonics fortunately banned, there used to be exemptions to use seed treatments which gives a much smaller usage in a very targeted way but these exemptions have now been ended. As a result, spraying of other pesticides will be used. Spraying means surface application of larger volumes of pesticide and will likely have more incidental kill of non target organisms than neonic seed treatments (not that much survives on monoculture anyway, it's horrendous for biodiversity).

 

[roche]

Spraying with neonics fortunately banned, there used to be exemptions to use seed treatments which gives a much smaller usage in a very targeted way but these exemptions have now been ended. As a result, spraying of other pesticides will be used. Spraying means surface application of larger volumes of pesticide and will likely have more incidental kill of non target organisms than neonic seed treatments (not that much survives on monoculture anyway, it's horrendous for biodiversity).

This is why the local estates policy of companion planting with OSR is interesting - it offers the hope of managing pests without the use pesticides and the consequencial loss of biodiversity.
Another local farm has just had a change of tenant and a change from organic to conventional arable. The loss of species has been dramatic, and horrid. Just one big, terrible act of vandalism. From vegetation, inspects birds, every part of the system (including waterways) has been damaged.

 

[Wilco]

This is why the local estates policy of companion planting with OSR is interesting - it offers the hope of managing pests without the use pesticides and the consequencial loss of biodiversity.
Another local farm has just had a change of tenant and a change from organic to conventional arable. The loss of species has been dramatic, and horrid. Just one big, terrible act of vandalism. From vegetation, inspects birds, every part of the system (including waterways) has been damaged.

Yet still the vegans and Monbiots insist livestock are the problem.

 

[RJC]

Yet still the vegans and Monbiots insist livestock are the problem.

It does depend a bit on what you think the problem is considered to be. Certainly growing grain, and then feeding it to livestock to eat is not the most efficient way of getting protein into humans (in effect the livestock acts as a middleman), but there is a lot of grass in the uplands which might otherwise go unused (leaving aside other potential environmental land uses). Farmyard manure is better for soil than inorganic nutrients, but excessive slurry or chicken manure can have an horrendous effect of water courses through nitrogen run-off. I'll leave the debate about methane emissions to others.

 

[Wilco]

It does depend a bit on what you think the problem is considered to be. Certainly growing grain, and then feeding it to livestock to eat is not the most efficient way of getting protein into humans (in effect the livestock acts as a middleman), but there is a lot of grass in the uplands which might otherwise go unused (leaving aside other potential environmental land uses). Farmyard manure is better for soil than inorganic nutrients, but excessive slurry or chicken manure can have an horrendous effect of water courses through nitrogen run-off. I'll leave the debate about methane emissions to others.

Indeed. Obviously some crops are grown specifically for livestock feed and the 'improved grass' mixes for hay are still monocultures which are rubbish for biodiversity but a lot of the crops fed to animals are actually by products or rejects from human food/drink production and using them as feed actually reduces wastage.

Yep, let's leave the mamalian methane myth alone for now.