AS from std National Brood to 14 x 12

[New Bee 2]

My hives are currently on a brood and a half (Nationals) and I am looking to move over to 14 x 12 to still have plenty of brood space and reduce inspection complexity. My plan was to AS using the 14 x 12 for the existing queen & flying bees. However, I was wondering how to overcome the problem that the frame from the current brood box will be a std national brood size going into a 14 x 12 brood box ??? Would really appreciate your advice ...

 

[Poly Hive]

My blunt advice would be to just stick it in and let the bees get on with it.

Bees can put up with a great deal, and an odd sized comb is no big deal to them.
PH

 

[YorkshireBees]

I would think they would just add drone brood on the bottom of the shorter frames, which you can then harvest / remove for capturing varroa!

Just my opinion.

 

[taff..]

I would think they would just add drone brood on the bottom of the shorter frames, which you can then harvest / remove for capturing varroa!

Just my opinion.

that one

 

[rae]

No problem at all putting Std Brood in a 14x12. Fill the rest of it with 14x12 foundation. I would put it somewhat off centre - this makes it a better candidate for future drone brood, and also makes it easier to get out of the hive in the future if you want to.

The only problem in the long term with this is that they may well start making a mess at the bottom, and it is possible to "drag" the drone comb off by catching it on protrustions. This falls to the bottom of the hive, and is a nightmare to fish out! (Don't ask me how I know this)

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Bit brave to stick your hand down there!

 

[MuswellMetro]

The use of a single standard frame in a 14x12 is quite a good idea as it allows a 14x12 hive Bees to build drone comb under the frame either to produce nice drones for mating from your best hive or for varroa control, likewise often a super frame is used in a standard national hive for the same reason

so as other have said just put it in between the 14x12 frames and use it later as the drone frame

 

[Gardenbees]

Agree with the above. I put 5 standard nuc frames into a 14x12 box for a while. Yes, they do build drone comb along the bottom, yes, it does sometimes get stuck (with hilarious consequences). But it's no great problem. I have now gradually replaced the smaller frames by simply moving them gradually to the edges, then shaking the bees off and replacing them with new 14x12 frames (which I would have wanted to do anyway to keep the brood area nice and open).

One tip: I found that if they've gooed the hanging drone comb onto the floor, you can gently slide a palette knife in through the front (assuming there's no entrance block in the way) and slowly slide it around against the open mesh (or solid, I expect) floor. Likewise the sides. I found that it was best to do this either first thing in the morning, or in the late afternoon, when there weren't loads of impatient foragers trying to get in and out of the entrance. These times are also better if there's a danger of exposing some honey, which they also sometimes put underneath at the sides. Doing that in the day, with the entrance block off, is asking for robbing problems and defensive bees. But my bees were fairly patient; I wouldn't like to try this with a really fierce colony! And you could always reduce the wild comb problems by "trimming" any hanging bits of comb each time you inspect the hive, assuming the bees will let you....

 

[beeboybee]

i am testing a "drone frame" made by my own clumsy hands!!!
standard 14 x 12 frame but added a sheet of standard foundation than two extra bottom bars to support this leaving a little wax poking through the new bars. so top two thirds is worker bottom third will let the bee's draw it out to drone but with the added advantage of a frame all around for cutting out.

hop this works found it on DAve cushman under drone frames
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gif/sbdronefr.gif

 

[New Bee 2]

Thanks for the great advice !!

 

[taff..]

i am testing a "drone frame" made by my own clumsy hands!!!
standard 14 x 12 frame but added a sheet of standard foundation than two extra bottom bars to support this leaving a little wax poking through the new bars. so top two thirds is worker bottom third will let the bee's draw it out to drone but with the added advantage of a frame all around for cutting out.

hop this works found it on DAve cushman under drone frames
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gif/sbdronefr.gif

I've seen a similar frame, it was split into 3 but with the bars running up and down, a 3rd of the frame could be cut out every week when it was capped.

 

[beeboybee]

reading this thread i think i move this frame off Center in the hive so the drones are on the edge of the brood nest rather than in the middle

 

[m.s.]

This frame is for a different style of hive yet the objectives are equal.

Here's Randy Oliver's site on IPM and Varroa

photo belongs to Carriage House Farm LLC​

 

[tonybloke]

welcome to the forum, m.s.

 

[MJBee]

One of the frames in my 14 x 12 is a standard National brood frame - queen lays worker brood in the frame and drone is produced from the bottom of the frame which is easily sliced off when capped. KISS works for me.

 

[phillisb]

would this work with a commercial brood box?

 

[m.s.]

welcome to the forum, m.s.

Thank you

 

[m.s.]

would this work with a commercial brood box?

I think it would, obviously the principle is providing an area where most if not all drone brood will congregate for easy removal before they emerge, however that is achieved.

 

[barratt_sab]

...AS using the 14 x 12 for the existing queen & flying bees...

We did exactly this last night.

We have been running a mixture of 14x12 and BS brood (from the original nucs). All the BS frames get brace comb on the bottom, but we've never had any great problems with it, and as others have said it makes drone culling very easy.

I had been planning to do a Bailey change to get rid of all of the BS brood frames in one go, but given that it seemed quite likely that we'd have to do at least one AS this spring, I held back (it had nothing to do with abject terror at the thought of just how angry a box full of well-shaken bees would be, of course )

 

[margob99]

I've just transferred from a national to a 14x12 and placed 7 national frames in and 5 of the 14x12 with foundation on either side. They're building drone comb at the base of the nationals, but a suggestion was also made, if you want to avoid the building of wild comb at the bottom, which - yes - I suspect will become a mess - you can place a suitably-sized block underneath them to reduce the bee space appropriately

See this thread:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9556