another dumb question...late summer splits

[Cuckmere couple]

so...having asked about Spring splits....a number mention over wintered nucs

So

to get overwintered nucs does one

- remove the queen from a honey producing colony towards end of summer when foragers are high and still time to requeen (or add a new mated queen)putting the removed queen into a nuc with 2-3 frames of brood
- leave queen in and remove frames into nuc for them to draw out a q cell and leave the newly mated q in the nuv over winter

or something else

im now attracted to the idea of over wintering some nucs next winter having seen that some over winter with as few as 3-4 frames

 

[Poly Hive]

I see the Americanisms creeping in .... splits and dumb..

Something else here.

PH

 

[drex]

so...having asked about Spring splits....a number mention over wintered nucs

So

to get overwintered nucs does one

- remove the queen from a honey producing colony towards end of summer when foragers are high and still time to requeen (or add a new mated queen)putting the removed queen into a nuc with 2-3 frames of brood
- leave queen in and remove frames into nuc for them to draw out a q cell and leave the newly mated q in the nuv over winter

or something else

im now attracted to the idea of over wintering some nucs next winter having seen that some over winter with as few as 3-4 frames

Depends on what you want , the resources you have and how much time you have. It takes about 4 weeks to raise a queen and for her to come into lay. All that time your colony is dwindling. I raise my own queens and they go into 3-4 frame nucs. I grow the colonies on. Some nucs are used to requèen my production hives others I over winter. Having spare queens is always a good insurance.

 

[Murox]

How you achieve your increase really is up to you, your situation and your bees. As drex indicated its good to have two or three nucs as an "insurance policy".

 

[Poly Hive]

If you were betting the farm on mating time personally I would say up to 6 weeks but I am a lot further North than Essex.

I raise good quality cells and give them to nucs with three frames of mostly sealed brood plus a couple of other frames shook in preferably from open brood frames so as to catch a good number of nurse bees for longevity.

I over winter in poly nucs. I do play chess with the nucs so as to bleed off the foragers from strong ones to weak ones so as to keep swarming in check and also to improve the wintering chances.

Nucs are fun units.

PH

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks all

the new window opening up to me is the chance to over winter in nucs

i have 7 poly nucs and only really seen them as nursing new colonies in spring/early summer for a head start before putting the colony into a hive and putting the nucs away again for the year

now i see the opportunity to create some queens towards late summer and over winter

do people have a mixture of established queens and newly mated in nucs i.e. are both possible?

 

[Poly Hive]

Being thick here but I don't understand the question.

PH

 

[Cuckmere couple]

yes, not phrased well

trying to get my head around how to make increase towards the end of a season and asking if you can over winter established laying queens...i.e. older queens as well as newly mated or if there is a tendancy to put the newly mated queen into a hive with larger colony and the older queen into the nuc

 

[SDM]

do people have a mixture of established queens and newly mated in nucs i.e. are both possible?

Not really, usually its just for new colonies with recently mated queens.
Theres nothing stopping you putting an established queen in a nuc though. I keep 4 of my breeder queens in nucs. Keeping the colonies small reduces laying and hopefully makes them last longer. Putting an established queen into a nuc as part of swarm control is common too.
Im not sure however that i understood why YOU would want to put established queens into nucs.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

if i was splitting later in the summer would i be better leaving the new queen in the national with the larger colony and put the older queen in the nuc or is it better to do it the other way around i guess is what im wondering

only got 3 colonies currently and like the idea of having some nucs coming through winter at this time next year

 

[SDM]

There's an argument that your main hive would be better of with the younger qlueen, but i doubt there's many that would do it that way. The new queen would be unproven at the very least and depending on how late in the season it is you may be better not disturbing the status quo in your main hive. Also depends on how old your okd queen is. Introducing a queen is easier in a small colony of the right age bees also, so best stick to putting your new queen into nucs, they'll be full strength colonies soon enough the following spring. Then you can unite or increase as you see fit.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

either - got three year old queens overwintering in full hives, autumn mated ones in nucs - all doing fine

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As for 'split' being an Americanism - tell that to the old boys around here, they've been using the term all their lives - even for A/S

 

[Hivemaker.]

As for 'split' being an Americanism - tell that to the old boys around here, they've been using the term all their lives - even for A/S

...same around here.

 

[Madge]

... I do play chess with the nucs so as to bleed off the foragers from strong ones to weak ones so as to keep swarming in check and also to improve the wintering chances.



Nucs are fun units.



PH

PH, how do you ‘bleed off’ the foragers, please? Do you swap the nucs around?

 

[mbc]

As for 'split' being an Americanism - tell that to the old boys around here, they've been using the term all their lives - even for A/S

 

[Eyeman]

yes, not phrased well

trying to get my head around how to make increase towards the end of a season and asking if you can over winter established laying queens...i.e. older queens as well as newly mated or if there is a tendancy to put the newly mated queen into a hive with larger colony and the older queen into the nuc

When raising nucs timing, use of resources and making use of the nuc are all important. Weather is also an unpredictable factor. Last year because if the drought 50% of my nucs were slow to build up and remained light on stores. The year before I was having to remove frames of stores to make sure the queen had room to lay.
Nucs do need molycoddling but I wouldn't be without them.

 

[Murox]

When raising nucs timing, use of resources and making use of the nuc are all important. Weather is also an unpredictable factor. Last year because if the drought 50% of my nucs were slow to build up and remained light on stores. The year before I was having to remove frames of stores to make sure the queen had room to lay.
Nucs do need molycoddling but I wouldn't be without them.

By "Molycoddling" do you mean feeding syrup and pollen and controlling population ?

 

[Cuckmere couple]

excellent advice and conversation for us newbies so thanks

Eyeman and others

if you are removing stores in a good year from a nuc....what is the right balance of brood to stores in a nuc to over winter?

say for a

3 frame nuc
4 frame nuc
5/6 frame nuc

 

[Poly Hive]

I stand corrected on the word split though; I have actually never heard it used in Scotland. My only contact with it was through reading Gleanings and ABJ.

These pics were taken an hour ago today 20th Jan. Not sure that the seams can be properly seen but there are 6 seams of bees and the slice of fondant is approx a kilo.

PH