Advice -combining nucs late season

[Alabamaeee]

After re-queening recently I have two very small colonies in Q+ nucs (kept for insurance) which I would like to combine with the best queen for overwintering.

Here is the scenario

Both in same apiary but 10 m apart
Both are in borrowed home made wooden nucs, no removable floor :-(
One has two frames and the other has only one, but has built a beautiful comb on the roof of the nuc! This is the nuc with the best Q as far as laying and temperament is concerned.

How to combine though? turn frames on one nuc upside down and screw onto floor, then invert nuc over the other with newspaper method?

It's a puzzle but I do want to try and take them through winter given the effort they have made to draw comb and survive.

 

[FreeFall]

Thinking about it, could you make a 'vertical' newspaper barrier - perhaps with a wooden frame that partitions one nuc and merge them that way? If you shunt the single frame all the way to one side, it should prevent them getting to the exit without going through the paper.

I've never done it or seen it done - just a thought.

 

[Alabamaeee]

That's sounds feasible!
Will await more suggestions before deciding.

 

[itma]

Confusion combination.
Scent, syrup, icing sugar, smoke and anything else you can think of, then interleave the combs in one box.


/ and PS keep the spare queen and a few attendants in a queen cage in a warm place for a day or two ... just as insurance.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Move the two nucs together until 1 metre apart.
Cage good queen for safety. Hard candy to delay entry. Remove the other one.
Unite nucs in suitable box with icing sugar shaken over the bees. Put a feeder on. Once they've sorted themselves out, they'll release the caged queen.

 

[itma]

Confusion combination.
Scent, syrup, icing sugar, smoke and anything else you can think of, then interleave the combs in one box.

Scent : perfume, or essential oil diluted in veg oil and sprayed, or maybe even the infamous air freshener ...
Syrup : thinnish, and sprayed onto the bees on each side of each frame ...
Interleave : frame from A, frame from B, frame from A, etc

Move the two nucs together until 1 metre apart.
...

Yes, indeed - I forgot to mention that ... ... and caging the good queen during the combine is a nice refinement.

 

[Alabamaeee]

Some great ideas here.

Don't think I have time on my side to gradually move them together,so I'm thinking...

Just move them all onto the one stand in the one nuc using your method of sugar etc. and cage the good queen. Then block the entrance with grass to keep them in for a day or so, then they can re-orientate. If I do it late in the day then shouldn't be too many flyers.

 

[Lorenz]

Just in case... don't turn one nuc box on top of the other. i did this and all the upside down brood died!!!

 

[Pete D]

Here is another wacky idea..........

move the 2 nucs together side by side.Decide what queen you are keeping and get rid of the other or reserve her to one side for a few days just in case. Remove both roofs and crown boards and put newspaper over the top of both nucs and put a couple of holes in it to get them started. Stick a brood box on top with a few drawn frames in with stores if possible. (You could take a frame from each nuc without brood and shake the bees off and use them). Add a crown board and a roof, hey maybe even a feeder.
Couple of days later the bees would of all mixed via the top brood box and you can move all the frames up combining all the brood in the middle, lose the nucs, add a floor and job done.

Pete D

 

[Alabamaeee]

Pete,

Another good idea but I don't think they will survive in anything bigger than a nuc, as there are only three frames and a wild comb in total.

 

[Beanwood]

I know I'm late with this...

After re-queening recently I have two very small colonies in Q+ nucs (kept for insurance) which I would like to combine with the best queen for overwintering.

Here is the scenario

Both in same apiary but 10 m apart
Both are in borrowed home made wooden nucs, no removable floor :-(
One has two frames and the other has only one, but has built a beautiful comb on the roof of the nuc! This is the nuc with the best Q as far as laying and temperament is concerned.

How to combine though? turn frames on one nuc upside down and screw onto floor, then invert nuc over the other with newspaper method?

It's a puzzle but I do want to try and take them through winter given the effort they have made to draw comb and survive.

Two ways spring to mind - the 'confuse the scent' route which I've not been brave enough to try myself yet, or make a nuc sized box, but with no floor (Fairly quick temporary box only - no floor or roof required...) and use newspaper.

If you don't want to squish her, I might be able to give your 'poorer' queen a home in exchange for such a cobbled together box, depending on location and timescales

 

[drex]

I was in similar situation earlier. I sprayed both sides of frames with air freshener, shook all the bees off frames from both nucs into one box, including the chosen queen - I think it is Sims who says the rough and tumble of the shaking helps them accept each other and to re orientate. I put the empty box back on the old site to collect returners, and there were only a handful.

They united well.

 

[oliver90owner]

two very small colonies

Not the best idea to combine two small colonies as weak as this. Better to unite each with a stronger colony or at least to end up with a strong colony.

Seems to me that they may make a nuc sized colony when united. If not strong enough they may not even chew through paper if that method were used. Late? I've still not united some yet. Today I shifted the 'yet-to-be' Q- colonies from one side of the uniting colonies to the other (that much easier to find the queen. Just another tip that many would not think about.

 

[Alabamaeee]

They were just a couple of "insurance" nucs after re-queening. I intended to give away the old queens to anyone who had lost one, but one of the nucs in particular has really made an effort to survive, hence my idea to try and boost the numbers.

Had a quick look in the weaker one tonight and no new brood in last two weeks. Did not even see the Q so maybe this one is pretty much doomed.

Beanwood, appreciate your kind offer. Will make a decision in the next few days as to what is happening, and how to proceed.