About to lose another swarm .. Best advice ?

[BrianO]

Hi

To be brief, new apiary, bought Nuc and established hive working on 1st super , collected Sunday last , inspected hive just now, thinking would be adding 2nd super, still 3 frames of 11 ( another question later ) undrawn.

Opened up brood box, about 4 frames in there it was a huge capped queen cell, examined all others no more or even play cups to be seen.

Queen marked and clipped still present, best course of action ???

Have another apiary site about 3 miles away on allotment , have poly nuc ready framed up ( as on allotment site my Nuc I think has swarmed and I was ready in am to recheck and split that ! ) anyway , remove best course of action ??.

Remove capped q.cell and frame of stores and shake of bees hive in Nuc and move to other apiary ?? Hoping ( as there were no other signs of any stage q. Cells ) that I can keep this original hive going , retaining queen and get a crop of honey , carefully monitoring for further signs of swarming ?

Planning on going back to act in AM about 7 hopefully !!! Before she abdicates !!!

Any sound advice welcome !!

Coming hot on heels of Nuc this week this is becoming a full time job !!


Secondary question , obviously hive should have been devoid of q.cells when sold to me , and any I should have found today should have not been capped ! ?

Also brood box and super were a frame short ( std. National ) having 11frames each instead of the standard 12 , is this normal when purchasing ??

 

[Roola]

If one capped queen cell, sounds more like supercedure to me.

 

[BrianO]

Ok, so best course action ?

It seemed huge too

 

[BrianO]

Last years queen DOB july 13

 

[JG_7oaks]

Hi Brian, I am just a raw beginner myself. My Nuc is developing into a nice colony after about six weeks. BUT, like you, not long after getting the Nuc, a queen cell started to develop. Panic! So I asked my friendly supplier of the Nuc and his advice in a nutshell was 'just let the bees decide'. So I left them be and four weeks later I still have a growing colony. But a few more queen cells as well!

I'm glad I didn't do anything drastic, but also still puzzled. BTW. I found the queen quite easily in the first few inspections but haven's seen her now for the last few - but still evidence of developing brood and happy bees so I'm sure she is there!

 

[Roola]

Are there eggs upright in cells? These are freshly laid and give an indication that she's still there, are there fewer bees?

 

[itma]

As I read it
- you have bought a "colony"
- with an apparent supercedure situation in progress at time of purchase
- and with 4 undrawn frames in the brood box


If this came from a commercial supplier, you ought to be on the phone to him.

But if you bought a pig in a poke, you might have got value for money.
First priority is to get the brood box frames drawn.
And from the time of emergence, until you notice lots of pollen going in (or a month has passed) avoid opening the hive in the middle of the day (say 11 to 4) so as to avoid interfering with a mating flight.
Supercedure can (but doesn't automatically) mean you having two queens in the colony for a while. Don't be surprised - and whatever you do, don't panic and try and remove one of them!

 

[sharonh]

Hi Brian,
Looks like they are replacing the queen, supercedure .
There is no need for you to do anything, just leave them to it. Don't disturb as a new queen will have mating flights to get on with, when she hatches & matures.
All this will take 3 weeks or so.




Love Beekeeping <3

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You hope

 

[BrianO]

Thanks Guys And Gals !

God this can be stressful and fascinating , was really peeved at finding this capped queen cell, thinking I would be adding a super, instead of panicking over an anticipated swarm.

So I shouldn't remove the frame with queen cell and should leave and not inspect for ???? How long ?

 

[BrianO]

Hi

Anyone any thoughts on this as going to try take action ( or not ) today, apologies to labour the point but dot want to make a Horlicks of it !!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks Guys And Gals !

God this can be stressful and fascinating , was really peeved at finding this capped queen cell, thinking I would be adding a super, instead of panicking over an anticipated swarm.

So I shouldn't remove the frame with queen cell and should leave and not inspect for ???? How long ?

Depends - is the queen still there, and have you still got fresh eggs? if you are confident it's supersedure leave them carry on but if there's still a queen and eggs you could knock down the cell and see what develops.
Had a colony like this at the association apiary this year 'perfect' supersedure cell - on it's own, slap bang in middle of frame at the edge of the brood cluster and absolutely no trace of other QC's play cups etc.

She swarmed​

As Itma, if this colony was from a 'reputable' dealer you should be getting hold of him.

 

[BrianO]

Thanks, will chase supplier, really p**** off re this, appreciate the replies

 

[BrianO]

As I read it
- you have bought a "colony"
- with an apparent supercedure situation in progress at time of purchase
- and with 4 undrawn frames in the brood box

Hi Itma

No, all frames in brood box worked, was in super that 3 were undrawn

Question . Is it an option to take frame of brood with q. Cell and frame of stores and shake bees and move to diff apiary hiving them up in a poly Nuc.... IF I can identify that the original queen is still laying, thus giving me chance of new colony ??

 

[itma]

Hi Itma

No, all frames in brood box worked, was in super that 3 were undrawn

Question . Is it an option to take frame of brood with q. Cell and frame of stores and shake bees and move to diff apiary hiving them up in a poly Nuc.... IF I can identify that the original queen is still laying, thus giving me chance of new colony ??

Yes, you could use the QC frame as the basis of a nuc towards your second colony.

But no, that isn't quite how to do it -- firstly, if you want the QC don't shake that frame! (You will kill the new Q before she emerges.) And you need to have enough bees and enough stores in the nuc to look after new Q and tide them through until new Q's brood starts to emerge. A nuc is three frames as a realistic minimum.

Splitting Q from QC (as with making a nuc) is the way of ensuring that supercedure doesn't convert to swarming.
And, just as with an artificial swarm, one has the option of recombining later either around a more vigorous new Q, or, should she fail to develop, mate or return from mating, you could recombine around the old Q.

However my suggestion would be to make up your nuc based on the old Q. That certainly takes off any swarming pressure in the main colony. Still need to check for emergency cells though!


As regards "making increase" and creating a second colony if you have two Qs, that is possible, but done at this time of year it would severely reduce your potential crop for this year from the depleted colony.

 

[BrianO]

Thanks

Took advice on board,

Removed old queen, hived in polynuc on 3 frames of mix brood and store and the compliment of bees that were on frames, moved this Nuc to second apiary 3 miles away.

Left original hive with 8 frames drawn in brood box with capped huge ( I think as of last Saturday ready to emerge new queen cell ) , put 3 undrawn foundation frames in brood box to replace those removed.

This hive has a super on which of 11 frames had 8 drawn and 80 % filled but none capped.

Questiions :

When should I next inspect as do not want to upset new queens mating flight prep or whatever ?

Presume as only 1 cell and virgin queen the chances of mating and returning alive are 50:50 ? ( chance eaten by swallow, caught in downpour , as we have had last few days, along with other hazards )

Should I be looking to have a mated queen sourced just in case ?

Also *another* hive I have, inspected Sunday last , no sign of queen , broke down about 5 uncapped, and I think some capped ( were under frame hard to differentiate, mass of cells that some looked like q.cells capped ) queen cells, left 2 uncapped on different frames, uncapped royal jelly filled cells.

Wondering would I be better off going and buying a mated queen for introduction here and breaking down these cells also ?

 

[BrianO]

View attachment 10521

The Future Monarch in waiting, chances in this crappy weather she will get out mated and back safely ??