A touch of insulation

[Little John]

A touch of insulation - but first:

My favourite tool (oo-er missus ..):

Tin can with serrated edge (by courtesy of an angle grinder) - cuts circles in expanded polystyrene a treat. On display next to a feeder jar 'tea cosy'.

Block of expanded polystyrene cut to suit my 4-jar crown boards. Cut cores are a 'gentle' fit.

Ok - this is the last of the Nationals to get this treatment ...

Two holes covered in fine ally mesh, the other two masked off for now with plastic.

Hive will be warm - but the feeder cold. Not good.

Hence the 'tea cosy'.

But the extra height requires an eke.

'Tis done ...

Next on the agenda is some uPVC cladding:
"watch this space"


LJ

 

[Skyhook]

You want to suggest that to ITLD, I'm sure he'd find it useful

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Love that idea.
By the way....how come you get to post large photos where all mine get to be thumbnails?

 

[Tabby15]

Thanks for this. Hoping to sort ours out next weekend and this is really useful.
From photos you are on brood and a half? Do u have an open mesh floor?

 

[user 6228]

Suggestion: make the polystyrene block a bit bigger and dispense with the wooden eke. Your present design can leak heat around the edges and up through the wood of the eke. Making the both the eke and block one piece out of poly gets round this

 

[Little John]

ericA: how come you get to post large photos where all mine get to be thumbnails?

I use: http://tinypic.com/?t=postupload
There's a box there where you can select the size of graphic.
Positives: you don't need to register with Tinypic.
Negatives: answering their anti-spam question each time is a tad irritating.

From photos you are on brood and a half?

Only in a sense - this is a very strong colony (and a long-suffering one, as I keep using it to test out new ideas ), so this year I've left one super on, with fully loaded combs (which will no doubt give Finman a heart attack), as I'm not really into honey production. Come spring, if I can get that super off in time, all well and good, but if she starts laying in it - that's ok with me.

Although there are plenty of stores in place, I'm regulating the amount of syrup to just 150ml each night, as I live in something of a 'nectar desert'. Plenty of pollen though. Couldn't do this in an out-apiary - but these are at home.

Do u have an open mesh floor?

Yes - and a solid floor ! The base is essentially a cavity 3.5" high, with a solid floor on the bottom, and an OMF above. It has a removable back, which is open for 95% of the time, and only closed when the weather is both cold and very windy. There is a Correx sheet lying on the solid floor, which can be slid out through the open back for cleaning, without dismantling the hive.

One idea I'm planning on trying this winter, is to place a 10 watt heater in the base cavity (with the back closed), in order to give the colony a small dose of heat for a couple of hours in the early morning, say around 2 or 3 a.m., but only when the outside temperature is really cold. That should allow them to move their cluster onto a new food source, without stimulating them to fly outside the hive - which would be fatal, of course.

It's all good fun.

LJ

 

[Little John]

Suggestion: make the polystyrene block a bit bigger and dispense with the wooden eke. Your present design can leak heat around the edges and up through the wood of the eke. Making the both the eke and block one piece out of poly gets round this

Hi Derek

I suspect you've overlooked the material being used. Unlike yourself, I'm using bog-standard expanded polystyrene which, although admittedly not the best of materials for this purpose, is what I'm using - 'cause I already have several cubic metres of it on site.

This stuff has two nasty habits: one is to wick water if in direct contact with foul weather for any length of time; the other is surface disintegration from UV, in which the surface turns to a chalky powder over a few years. Hence it's important to keep it dry and out of the sun if at all possible.

Polyurethane foam, or at least coated EPS would appear to be far more suitable.

Regards
LJ

 

[user 6228]

Hi Derek

I suspect you've overlooked the material being used. Unlike yourself, I'm using bog-standard expanded polystyrene which, although admittedly not the best of materials for this purpose, is what I'm using - 'cause I already have several cubic metres of it on site.

This stuff has two nasty habits: one is to wick water if in direct contact with foul weather for any length of time; the other is surface disintegration from UV, in which the surface turns to a chalky powder over a few years. Hence it's important to keep it dry and out of the sun if at all possible.

Polyurethane foam, or at least coated EPS would appear to be far more suitable.

Regards
LJ

I was assuming copious amounts of gaffertape or stickybacked plastic (where are you John Noakes?) were available. or failing that glue thin plywood to the foam so that the foam is hidden but the plywood is not thermal bridging.

 

[Little John]

But even that wouldn't stop the thermal bridging - which in this instance is a conductive phenomenon, and not a convective one.

One major source of thermal bridging is from the crown board down into the relatively thin box sides - assisted of course by propolis attachments - but to cure that would mean re-thinking the whole caboodle - which isn't realistic.

But - given that a colder area will indeed exist at the edges of the crown board - you know, that isn't an altogether bad thing, in that any condensation forming will run down the sides of the boxes, rather than drip onto the cluster.

LJ

 

[Cul a cnoic]

I have offcuts of foilbacked two inch insulation. Could I use this as a crownboard directly on top of the broodbox and would there be any thermal bridging by using it?
Thanks

 

[Little John]

I have offcuts of foilbacked two inch insulation. Could I use this as a crownboard directly on top of the broodbox and would there be any thermal bridging by using it?
Thanks

That's lovely looking stuff

If this were mine, than I'd install it 'metallic side up' on top of a sheet of thick (polytunnel grade) polythene, so that the bees don't chew it up. That wouldn't have a thermal contact bridge of any significance.

If you were to use it 'metallic side down', the bees wouldn't chew it, but you'd have a thermal contact bridge between the metal film and the woodwork. However, if you were to run some electrical insulation tape around the perimeter, where the foil would otherwise make contact with the woodwork, this would reduce the thermal bridging considerably. The more layers of tape, the less bridging.

Regards

LJ

 

[MuswellMetro]

That's lovely looking stuff

If this were mine, than I'd install it 'metallic side up' on top of a sheet of thick (polytunnel grade) polythene, so that the bees don't chew it up. That wouldn't have a thermal contact bridge of any significance.

If you were to use it 'metallic side down', the bees wouldn't chew it, but you'd have a thermal contact bridge between the metal film and the woodwork. However, if you were to run some electrical insulation tape around the perimeter, where the foil would otherwise make contact with the woodwork, this would reduce the thermal bridging considerably. The more layers of tape, the less bridging.

Regards

LJ

if you have propolising bees then DON'T put it direct on the frames without a bees space unless like LJ says you have a barrier, the propolised surface will just get stuck and break up when you open up

i have also found that any little tear or dent will be enlarged and exploited by wasps or robber bees to gain access to the stores

i now protect it and us it as an infill slab in an empty super rather than a 46cm square

 

[Cul a cnoic]

That's lovely looking stuff

If this were mine, than I'd install it 'metallic side up' on top of a sheet of thick (polytunnel grade) polythene, so that the bees don't chew it up. That wouldn't have a thermal contact bridge of any significance.

If you were to use it 'metallic side down', the bees wouldn't chew it, but you'd have a thermal contact bridge between the metal film and the woodwork. However, if you were to run some electrical insulation tape around the perimeter, where the foil would otherwise make contact with the woodwork, this would reduce the thermal bridging considerably. The more layers of tape, the less bridging.

Regards

LJ

Thank you LJ for such a detailed and helpful reply. Much appreciated.

if you have propolising bees then DON'T put it direct on the frames without a bees space unless like LJ says you have a barrier, the propolised surface will just get stuck and break up when you open up

i have also found that any little tear or dent will be enlarged and exploited by wasps or robber bees to gain access to the stores

i now protect it and us it as an infill slab in an empty super rather than a 46cm square

Thanks MuswellMetro, what you say makes perfect sense. I will now leave a beespace.

 

[itma]

if you have propolising bees then DON'T put it direct on the frames without a bees space unless like LJ says you have a barrier, the propolised surface will just get stuck and break up when you open up

i have also found that any little tear or dent will be enlarged and exploited by wasps or robber bees to gain access to the stores

i now protect it and us it as an infill slab in an empty super rather than a 46cm square

As I've said elsewhere, I've made up some asymmetric no-hole crownboards.
Apiguard eke as the rim on one side.
Eke upwards, it makes a protective surround for a square of whatever insulation board. (Eke down it also does for fondant on the topbars.)

The bottom-beespace national super has awkward gaps on two sides if you just fill it with a rectangle of insulation.
And when all your 'spare' supers seem to have filled up with frames, the eke is the cheap'n'easy solution.