3 miles 3 week rule

[Swarm]

Anyone managed this move in less than three weeks? If so, by how much?

 

[dickbowyer]

I had a swarm that arrived in a bait hive in what turned out to be an inconvenient end of the garden away from my main hives and wanted to move to my out apiary 1/3rd mile away after two weeks. I thought about moving it to association apiary 3 miles + away and then moving back to out apiary but it all seemed logistically too difficult as access was difficult at the beginning and end of the day. Moved hive 1/3rd mile to out apiary after closing up overnight, aimed to re-orientate them by, as it happens, tall meadow grass outside entrance and left poly nuc at original site with some brood frames and moved returning "fliers" back each night to brood box above main brood box each evening. By 3rd day, next to no fliers came back and just took poly nuc away. My impression was that did not loose too any of the "girls" this way.

 

[viridens]

Anyone managed this move in less than three weeks? If so, by how much?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. The usual rule is 3 miles or 3 feet, both of which can be done immediately.

 

[Swarm]

Resiting is usually three miles away for three weeks to prevent returnees.

 

[dickbowyer]

I thought a week was about enough to re-orientate?!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think what swarm means is:
If you want to move your hive to a location less than 3 miles away you should first move it from the original (1)to a temporary (2)site more than 3 miles away leave them there for at least 3 weeks (i thought it was a bit longer) for the colony to lose its memory of the original (1)site then move the hive to the new permanent location (no3) they will not then go back to site 1.
Has anyone been successful in doing it with less than a three week period

 

[RoseCottage]

Yes and you should have a read of:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10209

All the best,
Sam

 

[Frisbee]

I recently moved two colonies which were in abandoned MD hives. They were located on a farm which would be about a 3 mile drive from my hives, but when I went down the nearly mile long track to the hives, it headed straight in my direction and I doubt if 'as the bee flies' it was much more than a mile away.

I didn't have time to mess about so I just loaded them up and took them to my field. I took one hive on the Thursday evening and the next one the following day. Obviously I don't know if I lost many flying bees.....maybe so, but I went back the next day to remove the remaining abandoned hives and there were no bees flying around looking lost so the move was completely successful.

I wouldn't want to make a habit of it......these 'rules' are usually made up for very good reasons, but in this case breaking the rules worked.

Frisbee

 

[Steve Dyer]

I wouldn't want to make a habit of it......these 'rules' are usually made up for very good reasons, but in this case breaking the rules worked.

Frisbee

The rule I heard was 3 miles or three feet.

First I think 3 weeks is not necessary. Pretty much the whole population of flying bees dies and is replaced in 4 weeks. Whenever you move a hive within four weeks there will always be some bees that have never known elsewhere and some that did know the previous place. I think that the important factor is how different in orientation, sunlighting etc the new place is.

I have moved hives to a new place, blocked up the entrance with grass, let them eat their way out out for a few days then moved them back with the same process with success.

The three feet rule is also not much of a rule. I find that if you move a hive sideways three feet in one go it is too much and causes confusion, but if you move it forward, or even better back, you can move a longish distance - up to six feet easily.

Thus if you want to move a hive across the garden first rotate it (a few daily small moves) so the back faces where you are going and the incoming flight path re-aligns with the direction you want to take, then "walk" it backwards maybe 4-5 feet a day until you reach your destination, then re-align it by rotation. (In practice you can combine a bit of directional movement with the rotations and travel in a sort of "S" shape.)

It's amazing how many "rules" turn out not to be rules at all, but strongly held opinions based on nothing more than tradition.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

I find that if you move a hive sideways three feet in one go it is too much and causes confusion, but if you move it forward, or even better back, you can move a longish distance - up to six feet easily.

Moving a hive backwards is easier than moving a hive forwards or sideways. However, I've found that two big moves backwards one day after the other can cause problems as the bees can get a bit confused and tend to fly back to the original site.

Daily small moves or giving a couple of days between big moves should help.

Clogging up the entrance with grass (or brambles) helps as the bees tend to relocate after struggling out through the entrance (they know something has happened)...

 

[Steve Dyer]

Moving a hive backwards is easier than moving a hive forwards or sideways. However, I've found that two big moves backwards one day after the other can cause problems as the bees can get a bit confused and tend to fly back to the original site.

Daily small moves or giving a couple of days between big moves should help.

Clogging up the entrance with grass (or brambles) helps as the bees tend to relocate after struggling out through the entrance (they know something has happened)...

I'd agree with that. If you are moving a hive across an open lawn its oviously easier for the bees to spot it and think they've made a navigational error, than if it's amongst bushes and other similar looking hives.

Steve

 

[viridens]

It's amazing how many "rules" turn out not to be rules at all, but strongly held opinions based on nothing more than tradition.

I couldn't agree more. Maybe that should be written in big letters on the forum home page.​

P.S. I find that 'lost' bees soon drift into other hives if there are some nearby.

 

[yantabulla]

I've just moved a hive from the deck at the side of my house to a sunnier spot on my property by transporting it to another site for a month.

Upon their return there were a few bees checking out the old site for a few days so the survivors still have a memory of it.

Some good tips in previous posts around moving hives backwards or forwards rather than sideways. I always use a long board (2 -3 metres & painted white) situated at the hive entrance so that the bees don't have to think too hard about which hive is home.

Imagine a big white runway!

 

[psafloyd]

I moved a swarm in a nuc to my out apiary about a mile away and shoved the front of it into a thick buddleia bush. I only had a few dozen return to the original site amd fewer than a dozen stick it out until they died in another nuc near the original.

 

[Mel]

Hi from a new member - I found this thread very helpful when I needed to get rid of my colony in our french garden sharpish, having discovered back home in London that my husband is allergic to beestings.

The neighbouring beekeeper who took them is only a mile away and I was pretty worried I would have lots of grumpy returners. It may have helped that although the day we moved them the weather turned fine, the previous 4 days had been cold and wet so when they emerged at their new home they may have been disoriented by not being able to fly for the past 4 days.

Anyway, very few returning bees, and none after 4/5 days. The returners were not a nuisance as they were at the end of a long garden - but if they were returning to somewhere close to a house or a built-up area, that would be more of an issue to take into account.

I miss them a lot, but decided I'd miss my husband even more! The London bees are on the allotment, so we deal with that by exempting him from allotment work. Pity!

Mel

 

[viridens]

Welcome, and glad to hear that your hive re-siting went well.

You may have noticed that bee stings and their effects are a frequent subject here.

May I ask about your husband's reaction to his sting(s)?

 

[Mel]

This was his second sting in my 6 years of beekeeping and FAR worse than the first - his sight went fuzzy within 2 minutes of being stung (and I had the sting out within 20 seconds and a piriton into himin 30 seconds), felt faint and torso covered in red welts within minutes and face absolutely grey, and only just able to walk. However (possibly useful for people to know), the hospital said it wasn't truly anaphylactic shock because it hadn't made his breathing tubes contract - so they said don't bother about an epipen, just always carry piriton and take 3 if stung and lie down....

It's important to know that "allergy" doesn't always mean extreme anaphylactic reaction, but also we all know reactions get progressively worse with more stings, so I might yet try and persuade him to try and get an epipen. (But surely you'd leave it behind on the one occasion in 10 years you needed it?)

And it's a warning to me, keeping bees on a well-populated allotment, to be careful when I do manoeuvres which might have the bees looking for trouble - no sunny summer weekends!

Mel

 

[drstitson]

"I had a swarm that arrived in a bait hive"

swarms are a whole different issue as they have wiped their programming. you can move swarms as you wish before they've settled down properly.

 

[Spadaman]

Does the 3ft / 3 mile rule apply in winter?

My thinking is the vast majority of bees will be resident in the hive for long periods apart from the occasional toilet flights and will only emerge to forage in the early spring. So could a hive be moved, say 50 yds, during the depths of winter without the usual precautions or problems of disorientated bees?

 

[djg]

Spadaman,

Yes, like a swarm, an overwintering hive can be re-positioned to suit your preferences, ignoring the 3ft / 3 mile rule.