1st inspection, 95% bees gone handful left

[Biddly]

I carried out my first inspection this year on what was my biggest colony going into winter last year. They overwintered on a brood and a half. When i opened them up yesterday afternoon there were a small amount of bees in the middle of the brood super and none anywhere else. I would say 95% have just vanished. There were no dead bees at all on the OMF, no dead bees have been on the landing board or on the slabs in front of the hive all winter. There are no signs of dysentery inside or outside of the hive. No dead bees in any of the brood combs, all the brood area of the combs are empty but reduced stores in an arc around the outside.

The brood super had a small amount of eggs, larva and capped brood in the middle frame and on the inside wall of the frame next to it, the others still had stores in them.

I treated for varroa during the 2011 season by dusting icing sugar after each inspection, replaced old comb and used Apiguard as per the instructions in September.

What do you think had caused this huge loss of bees with no dead bees visible inside or outside ?

 

[protheroe]

I carried out my first inspection this year on what was my biggest colony going into winter last year. They overwintered on a brood and a half. When i opened them up yesterday afternoon there were a small amount of bees in the middle of the brood super and none anywhere else. I would say 95% have just vanished. There were no dead bees at all on the OMF, no dead bees have been on the landing board or on the slabs in front of the hive all winter. There are no signs of dysentery inside or outside of the hive. No dead bees in any of the brood combs, all the brood area of the combs are empty but reduced stores in an arc around the outside.

The brood super had a small amount of eggs, larva and capped brood in the middle frame and on the inside wall of the frame next to it, the others still had stores in them.

I treated for varroa during the 2011 season by dusting icing sugar after each inspection, replaced old comb and used Apiguard as per the instructions in September.

What do you think had caused this huge loss of bees with no dead bees visible inside or outside ?

could you have missed a late swarm and casts?making a strong colony quite weak for going into winter

 

[Finman]

.
Sounds exactly the work of varroa.

I had that problem 1,5 y ago, and it continued partly this year. And no my friend had similar "vanishing bees".

It means that the hive has a big mite load. They suck those bees to death which were meant to over winter. Vanishing has happened allready in Autumn.

Propably rest of you bees have still mites and brood too.

***

You have another hive. How big is that? And I suppose that it has mites too quite much with your sugar dust concept.

.

 

[Chris Luck]

And I suppose that it has mites too quite much with your sugar dust concept.

and used Apiguard as per the instructions in September.

Chris

 

[enrico]

Tell me this isn't CCD. ( tin hat!)
E

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Tell me this isn't CCD. ( tin hat!)
E

OK, its not CCD


Seriously though, how many of these stories of dead hives relate to the particular poster's strongest colonies going into winter.

 

[Biddly]

After the Apiguard treatment in September, i did my last inspection of 2011 and the colony was huge, with brood in both boxes. In fact i was always a little daunted inspecting this colony as it was large and could be a bit feisty. It's the complete absence of any dead bees that has me stumped.

There were no QC at the last inspection and the queen was a summer 2011 mated queen and was laying well.

 

[Finman]

and used Apiguard as per the instructions in September.

Chris

Yes I saw that, but perhaps treatment unsucceeded or damage has happened allready.
My friend used thymol strips as before, but her clusters were 20% that of Autuimn size. They ought to the whole box.

The reason to my friends problems may be that normally, in that time, when she treated, bees have not much brood. But Autumn was warm and she had nearby lots of red clover. Bees made extra brood cycle and the efficacy of thymol had vanished when last brood emerged.

Those stuffs do not affect under cappings even if sellers tell so.

 

[Finman]

After the Apiguard treatment in September, i did my last inspection of 2011 and the colony was huge, with brood in both boxes. In fact i was always a little daunted inspecting this colony as it was large and could be a bit feisty. It's the complete absence of any dead bees that has me stumped.

There were no QC at the last inspection and the queen was a summer 2011 mated queen and was laying well.

Sounds like in my fried's hives. Huge brooding and treatment too early.

Treatment does not affect under brood cappings.

As I have told here before, I had the same 1.5 y ago.

I had 4 huge hives, 7 boxes in Summer, and when I opened them for oxalic trickling, they were totally empty.

Yes, such happens even in better families.
.

 

[johnfly]

The reason to my friends problems may be that normally, in that time, when she treated, bees have not much brood. But Autumn was warm and she had nearby lots of red clover. Bees made extra brood cycle and the efficacy of thymol had vanished when last brood emerged.

Those stuffs do not affect under cappings even if sellers tell so.

sugar dusting to have a good effect wants to be done at least five days in a row

 

[Finman]

sugar dusting to have a good effect wants to be done at least five days in a row

Forget sugar dusting. Good for nothing.

 

[johnfly]

Forget sugar dusting. Good for nothing.

i agree with you finman but some people do use it and its better if they know as not know if you have the time and only a few hives then you have to dust them at least five days in a row

 

[oliver90owner]

then you have to dust them at least five days in a row

If it was 100% effective, that would not be enough. The efficacy of a five day treatment would be a maximum of about 40% even if it worked perfectly - which it doesn't, of course.

Perhaps you can supply the efficacy of a single treatment on the phoretic mites actually present at the time? We can ignore any on foraging bees, to make it appear better. With drone brood that hypothetical 40% would be a good deal less.

Tell us how much sugar needs to be dusted each time to be sure of a good treatment.

Answers are not easily available, I wouldn't wonder. Yes there will be a large mite drop, if there is a huge infestation, but that will only be the 'tip of the iceberg'.

 

[MuswellMetro]

and used Apiguard as per the instructions in September.

Chris

I think Apiquard in Mid August gives much better results, the ambient temperature by the end of the six week treatment is too low if you start in September... when in September 1st, 15th or 30th

did you do any oxalic in december/Jan

 

[itma]

Before going on a diversion about the effectiveness of the sugar, what I haven't seen in the OP's reports is any mention of what Varroa drops he was seeing.
Not during treatment, but after (Apiguard) treatment.
How many you kill isn't the point - its checking how many have survived.


/ I have the impression that a lot of people just 'follow the instructions' and assume it will have 'worked' - especially if they see a satisfying number of dead mites during treatment.
Routine monitoring - especially if you only have a few hives - is probably more important than knowing what stuff you have routinely put into the hive according to a calender-driven schedule..

 

[drstitson]

"Seriously though, how many of these stories of dead hives relate to the particular poster's strongest colonies going into winter."

precisely - that's what the inspectors are finding when informed of losses.

aside from a really really weak nuc my only other loss this winter was my best hive - empty at end of november. lack of interest in syrup in the preceeding fortnight was probably a big clue that they were under par.

 

[Tom Bick]

When you did the Apiguard treatment did you have the hive set up correctly?

Get it wrong and its effect will be greatly reduced especially during September.

 

[Skyhook]

Before going on a diversion about the effectiveness of the sugar, what I haven't seen in the OP's reports is any mention of what Varroa drops he was seeing.
Not during treatment, but after (Apiguard) treatment.
How many you kill isn't the point - its checking how many have survived.


/ I have the impression that a lot of people just 'follow the instructions' and assume it will have 'worked' - especially if they see a satisfying number of dead mites during treatment.
Routine monitoring - especially if you only have a few hives - is probably more important than knowing what stuff you have routinely put into the hive according to a calender-driven schedule..

The first time I used apiguard I followed the instructions to the letter and got big drops- but I kept monitoring, and after 6 weeks they were still falling steadily, I had to use other methods (apistan) to clear them up. I also OA'd for luck.

 

[Finman]

.
What had happened it had happened. It i difficult to know a half year later what had happened actually.


When hive has full brooding on, te efficacy is not enough even if you make so good as youcan do it.
70% is normal. if brooding continues, mite multiplying continues too.

Show must go on.

 

[user 6228]

Sounds like in my fried's hives. Huge brooding and treatment too early.

Treatment does not affect under brood cappings.

As I have told here before, I had the same 1.5 y ago.

I had 4 huge hives, 7 boxes in Summer, and when I opened them for oxalic trickling, they were totally empty.

Yes, such happens even in better families.
.

Those "4 huge hives" what else was similar/common between them?