Lost another swarm

ShinySideUp · Jun 9, 2020

I lost another swarm today, I'm not bothered, the bees are doing what bees do but I think the swarm came from a hive that has already swarmed at least once and maybe twice before.

All five hives are in the same direction, made of the same stuff and in most respects they are identical so why would one colony decide to swarm over and over again when the others are quite happy where they are? All the hives' queens are from stock in the same apiary.

Can a colony swarm itself out of existence? Why would it do that?

Erichalfbee · Jun 9, 2020

ShinySideUp said:
Can a colony swarm itself out of existence? Why would it do that?

They do because they can and yours has

Some people are on 5 day inspections this time of year

drex · Jun 9, 2020

It can swarm so many times it is so seriously depleted its future is in jeopardy.
I have a swarm related problem that I do not understand. I have no notes of dates as they are not my bees.
A couple of weeks ago I got a call from one of my newbees. " my bees are swarming" . Went over and showed him how to hive a swarm. Went through the box and reduced queen cells down to one, which was open. Five days later went through again, and knocked down any new cells.
Yesterday he called to say they were swarming again. I thought it unlikely, but went over. They were up in a tree and he got them. Going through the original colony the chosen cell had emerged, and there were several closed emergency cells. I can only think they reared emergency cells off very old larvae, since there would have been no eggs or young larvae available. Any thoughts from the more experienced?

E&MBees · Jun 9, 2020

I have a colony that has already swarmed and been caught this year. Inspected at the weekend and there were multiple QC’s despite the previous week there being none. The queen has been transferred to a nuc and I will check later in the week for more QC’s.

Hebeegeebee · Jun 9, 2020

ShinySideUp said:
I lost another swarm today, I'm not bothered, the bees are doing what bees do but I think the swarm came from a hive that has already swarmed at least once and maybe twice before.

All five hives are in the same direction, made of the same stuff and in most respects they are identical so why would one colony decide to swarm over and over again when the others are quite happy where they are? All the hives' queens are from stock in the same apiary.

Can a colony swarm itself out of existence? Why would it do that?

Answer 1. Genetics can make one colony swarm compared to another. That's why there are bee breeders and beekeepers select from their best.
Answer 2. If a colony has swarmed with a prime swarm it's up to the beekeeper to then manage the colony or he/she can/will lose casts.
Answer 3. Yes, pretty well it can. Which is where you go to answer 2 in the short term and to 1 in the longer term.

Murox · Jun 9, 2020

ShinySideUp said:
I lost another swarm today, I'm not bothered, the bees are doing what bees do but I think the swarm came from a hive that has already swarmed at least once and maybe twice before.

All five hives are in the same direction, made of the same stuff and in most respects they are identical so why would one colony decide to swarm over and over again when the others are quite happy where they are? All the hives' queens are from stock in the same apiary.

Can a colony swarm itself out of existence? Why would it do that?

Genetics - takes two (& more in the bee's case) to tango. Appropriate housing. Appropriate and timely management.

thorn · Jun 9, 2020

it's in their genes. Requeen..

jenkinsbrynmair · Jun 9, 2020

ShinySideUp said:
I lost another swarm today, I'm not bothered, the bees are doing what bees do but I think the swarm came from a hive that has already swarmed at least once and maybe twice before.

All five hives are in the same direction, made of the same stuff and in most respects they are identical so why would one colony decide to swarm over and over again when the others are quite happy where they are? All the hives' queens are from stock in the same apiary.

Can a colony swarm itself out of existence? Why would it do that?

When was the prime swarm?
Did you go in as soon as possible after and reduce the QC's down to one?
Did you go in again four or five days later and check for any more QC's and tear them down?

drex · Jun 9, 2020

JBM please see my post at number 3. This is exactly what I did and they still swarmed. Why emergency cells? Older larvae as I thought?

For want of a better word · Jun 9, 2020

ShinySideUp said:
I lost another swarm today, I'm not bothered, the bees are doing what bees do

Seems to be set in the bees swarmy gene... some have it some do not.

Chons da

jenkinsbrynmair · Jun 9, 2020

drex said:
JBM please see my post at number 3. This is exactly what I did and they still swarmed. Why emergency cells

Because that's what they do. Many will use older cells, it's the chance we take when we rub our hands and walk away after day six.
It's like humans - some like to wring their hands and panic more than others

Erichalfbee · Jun 9, 2020

Better day eight then if you have left a QC a couple of days from sealing and you’re absolute sure you haven’t missed any first time round?

Anthony Appleyard · Jun 9, 2020

How often does a hive swarm, and the swarm is housed, and the resulting new colony itself swarms in the same year? I have heard of it happening.

jenkinsbrynmair · Jun 9, 2020

Called a maiden swarm

ShinySideUp · Jun 9, 2020

It doesn't really matter if they swarm themselves out of existence in my apiary, I have five hives and really only want three so this year I am leaving them to it. I am providing space, varroa treatment as necessary and an isolated place where they can be themselves, if they choose to leave that is their prerogative. I live in a rural area so the chances of them finding a home in a place of public nuisance are low. I'd like to think I am doing them a service by sending them out into the world mostly free of pests and disease in the hope that in a small way I can encourage the growth of wild bee colonies. I have spent the last few years diligently ripping the lid off their world every five to seven days in the Spring and Summer and this year I have started to wonder why I am doing that. It has been said that if you don't have a reason to open a hive then don't do it -- so I haven't. I will check for space and varroa this weekend though then probably leave them alone until harvest time in late July.

I expect my beekeeping will send many into paroxysms but I believe that what I am doing with my bees now follows with my general support of nature in that I have a very large garden, most of which is given over to either meadow flowers or large shrubs and trees -- I have also planted an orchard of sixteen fruit trees. I rarely cut down the nettles in the periphery as they are good for hedgehogs, of which I have many. This year, we have had wrens, crows, blackbirds, bluetits, jackdaws, pigeons and squirrels nesting in our garden (yes, we have a squirrel drey in a pine tree). The bees are one more item of wildlife that I encourage and support but as with all things nature will take it's course and I intend to let it.

GuyNir · Jun 9, 2020

ShinySideUp said:
It doesn't really matter if they swarm themselves out of existence in my apiary, I have five hives and really only want three so this year I am leaving them to it. I am providing space, varroa treatment as necessary and an isolated place where they can be themselves, if they choose to leave that is their prerogative. I live in a rural area so the chances of them finding a home in a place of public nuisance are low. I'd like to think I am doing them a service by sending them out into the world mostly free of pests and disease in the hope that in a small way I can encourage the growth of wild bee colonies. I have spent the last few years diligently ripping the lid off their world every five to seven days in the Spring and Summer and this year I have started to wonder why I am doing that. It has been said that if you don't have a reason to open a hive then don't do it -- so I haven't. I will check for space and varroa this weekend though then probably leave them alone until harvest time in late July.

I expect my beekeeping will send many into paroxysms but I believe that what I am doing with my bees now follows with my general support of nature in that I have a very large garden, most of which is given over to either meadow flowers or large shrubs and trees -- I have also planted an orchard of sixteen fruit trees. I rarely cut down the nettles in the periphery as they are good for hedgehogs, of which I have many. This year, we have had wrens, crows, blackbirds, bluetits, jackdaws, pigeons and squirrels nesting in our garden (yes, we have a squirrel drey in a pine tree). The bees are one more item of wildlife that I encourage and support but as with all things nature will take it's course and I intend to let it.

Good for you. Nothing wrong with that in my mind, if done by design, while understanding and accepting the risks involved.

viridens · Jun 10, 2020

It sounds like a wildlife heaven, but there could be some debate about the possible negative effect on wild native bees of flooding the area with more feral colonies in addition to your managed honey bees.

ShinySideUp · Jun 10, 2020

viridens said:
It sounds like a wildlife heaven, but there could be some debate about the possible negative effect on wild native bees of flooding the area with more feral colonies in addition to your managed honey bees.

It has been said, although I cannot quote a reliable source, that only 1%-2% of bees in the UK are now truly wild populations due to the influx of varroa and their accompanying diseases. Regarding your comment on competition with any wild/feral native bees I can add that I live on the edge of Bodmin Moor and to the North of my garden the next substantial area of human population is eleven miles away so I trust there is room for a couple of stray colonies

For want of a better word · Jun 10, 2020

Thank the Lord for Builders foam......

Lost another swarm

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